Verizon Palm Pre Plus Initial Impressions
It's been four years since the last major piece of news from Palm and Verizon in January, which was the Treo 700w launch on January 5th 2006. Yesterday marked the occurrence of an event that many (yours truly included) feared would never take place: Verizon launched not one, but two new Palm devices and both are currently Verizon exclusives. Palm fans that refused to jump ship to Sprint now finally have the opportunity to grab a webOS device on a second domestic network.
Not wanting to miss any of the launch excitement, I accompanied my boss to the local Best Buy to grab a Pre Plus. He's a long-time Treo owner, having used a Treo 600 since its launch on Verizon in 2003, and was clinging dearly to his Centro. I convinced him to take the plunge to move to a webOS device since his Centro wouldn't last forever and he was yearning for a device with a larger, higher-resolution screen. Besides, I told him he might as well learn to cut the cord and embrace the cloud. Best Buy was the natural choice as a purchase destination, due to the retailer's customer-friendly policy of eschewing the hassle of mail-in rebates. Read on for a full report on the in-store experience, as well as the device migration process and my initial impressions of the Verizon Palm Pre Plus.
In-Store Experience
Arriving shortly after the store's opening, we were not only the only customers in the BB Mobile department, but the only people in there looking for the latest and greatest handsets from Palm. In fact, the girl there informed us that we were their very first Verizon webOS customers. At least as far as the local Best Buy stores was concerned, the Verizon webOS launch was shaping up to be a decidedly low-key affair. A demo Pre Plus was present but a Pixi Plus was nowhere in sight and there was no Palm signage or end-cap displays.
One of the sales clerks mentioned off-hand that they had approximately two dozen or so of each webOS device in stock but were not anticipating a huge rush. Of course, it was still early in the morning (11am) but this was not an encouraging sign that Verizon is going to put the kind of push behind webOS like they have with Android. The BB Mobile sales staff seemed fairly unenthusiastic about Palm's products, being unaware of several key specifics about webOS, such as its current lack of support for Visual Voicemail, voice dialing, and video capture. In general, our salesclerk was quick to recommend a Droid over any of the webOS devices but we refused to be deterred from our mission to acquire a Pre Plus.
On a positive note, a full line of Palm accessories was in stock and prominently displayed on the accessory rack, including the more affordable $49.99 Touchstone solo dock that works with the Touchstone-ready Verizon Plus devices (yes we got one to go with the Pre Plus).
Overall, the in-store process took quite a bit longer than expected. This was partially due to some mysterious activation issues with the new Pre Plus in the BB Mobile/Verizon system as well as some confusion by the BB staffer over the eligibility of the account's correct line for upgrade pricing. After everything was finished, we headed back to begin the Garnet to webOS migration process.
Packaging
The Pre Plus was in a box extremely reminiscent of its Sprint sibling. The package contents and overall OOBE were identical. It's nice to see Palm sticking to their new aesthetic introduced with the Treo Pro, especially with their accessory products, as they really stand out on the store shelves from the competition.
Palm Desktop Migration
Without going off on too much of a tangent, this was a surprisingly smooth process. My boss is a no-nonsense type with a decade-long, carefully edited stockpile of 800+ contacts, countless calendar entries, and a small handful of memos and to-do items, all in Palm Desktop. Running on a Windows Vista 32-bit installation, Palm's Data Transfer Assistant (now up to version 1.3) found the entire PIM contents of my boss' Palm Desktop profile and transferred it to the Pre Plus via USB. Since he has been loath to perform Hotsyncs in times past (and even more inclined to lose Palm Hotsync cables!) he was in awe of the cloud-based backup and synchronization.
Despite my pleas, the resident curmudgeon didn't want to establish a Gmail account and chose to place the security of his contacts on Palm's servers for their webOS Profile. I personally wish Palm would add a bit more functionality to their Palm Profile and/or permit users to migrate their existing PIM data to both Gmail and their Palm Profile in the same instance but that's another article for another day. Regardless, I am planning to go ahead and export his Palm Desktop PIM data to Gmail "just in case".
Pre Plus Hardware
Having fairly recently sold a Sprint Pre that was in my possession, I quick noticed the improved keyboard and build quality of the Pre Plus. There is definitely a bit more tactile feedback to the keyboard and its keys are not quite as soft and squishy as they were on the first-generation Pre. It's not perfect but I could definitely adapt. Within a few minutes, I was typing at a rate that surpassed my efforts on the miserable Droid keyboard. I still prefer the accessibility of the Pixi keyboard but the Pre Plus definitely now matches it in feedback. Plus, I love the classic "smile" arrangement.
Aesthetically, I was not a fan of the slightly garish orange highlights used on the original Pre but I must confess that they were a bit more legible than the grey markings on the Pre Plus. Also, while I'd still prefer a conventional d-pad (mechanical, optical or otherwise) I miss the original Pre's single button, just to use as a way to properly orient the device and to easily find by feel. We occasionally had difficulties in registering an accurate tap on the center "tap pad" of the Pre Plus' gesture area.
The slider on the Pre Plus clicks into place with a much firmer feel and no hesitation. Much like the old Tungsten T days, every Sprint Pre I've used had a slightly different feel to its slider. Hopefully Palm can maintain a higher level of quality and consistency on the Plus models. Screen brightness, color saturation, and overall clarity remained superb as always. Audio volume and call clarity was very good, both on the earpiece and the speaker, especially so for a Palm product. The headphone jack worked properly but the feeble microUSB port cover is still present. I've really grown accustomed to the exposed side-mounted port on my Droid and wish Palm would go ahead and adopt a similar design. That said, the little cover felt a tad more secure on the Pre Plus than on the 8GB Pre I have handled in the past.
Having the Touchstone back pre-installed is something that should have been standard on the Sprint Pre, as I feel it improves the both the handling and appearance of the Pre. I still love the concept of the Touchstone dock itself, but the unit purchased yesterday didn't seem to grab the Pre Plus with quite as much force as Palm's demo units at CES last year or the early-run Sprint launch-era Touchstones I used last year. Has Palm perhaps had a spec change on magnet size on the Touchstone?
Performance & OS Issues
Well, I must confess that I was quietly hoping for a miracle here as far as webOS performance is concerned. I have not used a Pre at length since the webOS 1.2 days, so I was really hoping that some byzantine combination of webOS 1.3.5.1 alongside the Pre Plus's extra RAM and the rumored CPU boost would make for a snappy device. While I am pleased to say that I could notice some slight speed improvements to webOS, the Pre Plus still has a long way to go before being considered a speed demon. My Droid has a good number of irregular lags, whereas the Pre Plus had the predictable delays when launching apps. In addition to the Pre Plus' vastly improved multitasking capabilities (helped in no small part by the improvement in Palm's app store offerings), I was delighted in seeing the lightning-fast response from the Pre's fixed focus camera, one area of the device I hadn't had much experience with until yesterday
The extra RAM on the Pre Plus is definitely felt when flipping through 10 or more cards. I suppose the best way to summarize the Pre Plus' performance deficiencies is that it was just about as laggy with one or two cards open as it was with ten or twelve. Hopefully future revisions of webOS will continue to address the performance shortcomings. In my opinion, this is one of the most glaring issues with that platform that Palm definitely needs to address ASAP. After a few hours with the device, "tap and wait" became quite tiresome. The iPhone 3GS and especially the Snapdragon-powered Android 2.1 Nexus One I recently played with are absolute screamers in comparison to the current crop of plodding webOS devices.
Conclusion
I just got a call from the boss and he stated that despite the steep learning curve, he's cautiously optimistic about his chances with the Pre Plus. He likes the improved screen size and clarity over his Centro and has surprisingly even adapted to the card metaphor for multitasking. Overall he remains irked about the lack of voice dialing and lack of voicemail number customization and misses the lighting quick response of his Centro but is committed to pressing forward with a new platform. He's still going to keep trusty ol' Centro at the ready in a desk drawer should a deal-breaking flaw emerge within the 30-day window to return the Pre.
Personally, in just two days of usage, I feel that the Pre Plus is easily the best of Palm's current offerings. It's not worth a $600 unsubsidized purchase or breaking a Sprint contract, but it's a no-brainer for someone wanting the best possible webOS experience. Whether or not it is Palm's best-ever device is certainly up for debate and greatly depends on the usage habits and personality of the user. The Pre Plus' hardware changes are far from revolutionary but make for a nice holdover while Palm readies a true next-generation device.
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RE: very nice review
I wonder if OTA updates are going to address the lags, or if it's just going to be a platform reality? The Pre is not running on junky hardware. Not quite Snapdragon, but it should be snappy if the 3GS is. This is a VERY import issue to customer satisfaction.
Pat Horne
RE: very nice review
how long are you prepared to wait for these magical panacea fix all OTA updates? i think Sprint customers are still waiting X months later.
RE: very nice review
Pat, the lack of performance really is distressing, especially on the Pre Plus. The Pixi is even worse, as you well know. I mean, if it were not for the little "ripple" effect, you would honestly think that most of the time the rap had not even registered. This, btw, was on a day 1 Pre Plus with ~800 contacts, ~400 calendar entries, a few memos and a solitaire game. No media, no browser cache, nothin' else! Again, performance IS better than it was at launch or in the WebOS 1.2 days, but it's still got a long, long way to match the latest crop of Android devices or the iPhone 3GS. The accelerometer also seemed to get hung up quite frequently as well. I don't know if this is a typical complaint of Pre/Pixi owners.
He is giving Palm 3 weeks to address the voicemail password issue and then it goes back to Verizon and he is going to buy a new leftover Centro from E-Bay (per my original recommendation from months ago).
P.S. I prefer Huddle House over Waffle House!
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid
RE: very nice review
Great review, Kris. I would have expected more than a few people to line up in the morning for this on VZW. Strange.
RE: very nice review
Honestly, I feel that someone going from a late-model Garnet device to the Pre would be more critical of the WebOS twins than would a smartphone neophyte.
Oh, another thing: PreCentral has a nice poll running now asking readers the top 5 patches they'd like to see Palm incorporate into WebOS. Of course, there are many more than 5 features missing from WebOS that were in Garnet. And the usability factor is another thing entirely. IMO, we needed something like Cobalt/ALP on Palm's smartphones and WebOS deserves to be on a larger device. A larger device like, say, the iPad! What a great concept, btw, but overpriced and crippled by not only the OS but a few foolish Apple cost-cutting measures such as no SD slot, no camera etc. Typical Apple arrogance at its best. I think the iPad is going to join the 25th Anniversary Mac and Apple TV in the stinker category.
Of course, the same can be said for the Android , iPhone, BB platforms as well.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid
RE: very nice review
Why would you expect a lineup for the Pre Plus and/or Pixi Plus on Verizon?
What do these phones offer potential customers that other phones don't?
Have the phones been advertised by Verizon + Palm in a manner that would create the type of demand that would lead to lineups?
Why would a longtime PalmOS user switch to a WebOS phone and suffer through the pain of the Classic PalmOS emulator when they could just buy a new Centro on eBay for $100 - $125 and run all of their old PalmOS apps reliably - and a lot more quickly - without dealing with the bugs of a work-in-progress OS like WebOS?
With the iPhone expected within a couple of months on Verizon, how many Verizon customers are likely to commit to buying a Pre Plus or Pixi Plus?
- These are the questions that will decide Palm's fate. The company needs to get bought out ASAP by a well-heeled white knight that can afford to give the platform the year or so of development time it needs to get to the point where it can compete with the likes of iPhoneOS and Android. And the hardware running WebOS needs to step up to the level of the next iPhone, otherwise it's pointless even bothering coming to market. Consumers want sexy hardware first, usability second and applications third. Apple's innovation is that they were the first to make applications a selling point for hardware. Ther irony is that Palm had all of the pieces to make its own App Store years ago and did nothing.
My Centro with Chatteremail and the 200 other apps I've collected over the years is a better (for me) phone than iPhone or an Android phone, even though those newer phones have hardware that embarass the Centro. But the Centro nails the compromise between size, shape and keyboard in my opinion. I use Launcher X for functionality, but bought a copy of TealOS last year before Palm issued the Cease & Desist order to TealPoint. The fact that TealPoint could so quickly mimic the look and feel of WebOS and so easily put a fresh coat of paint on the ancient Centro shows Palm missed the boat and ended up throwing out the baby with the bath water. The Centro design, Palm OS and Palm OS applications just needed a little freshening and could easily have remained a solid alternative for people interested in functionality instead of flash.
It's hilarious to see that prices for new Centros (NEVER buy a used Centro, Kids!) have actually increased on eBay compared to what they used to sell for. A $100 new Centro loaded with 20 or 30 top PalmOS apps is actually a pretty decent competitor to ANY phone currently on the market, including the precious iPhone. Only problem is that the Centro hardware looks more and more primitive with every new Android phone or iPhone that gets announced. Eventually, even the most diehard of PalmOS fans will be seduced by the siren song of sexy specs. (Exhibit A: hkklife) What we need is for Access to release stable PalmOS emulators for Android and (ain't gonna happen) iPhone OS and charge $30 for a license. That way PalmOS fans get to keep their old familiar PIM and other apps without having to stay with hardware from the Dark Ages. Unfortunately, the more likely reality is that enough apps for Android and iPhone OS will be released that mimic the functionality of popular PalmOS apps that - one by one - PalmOS fans will all move on to other platforms (and it won't be WebOS!).
Show me an (smaller) iPhone that has a physical keyboard and I might take a second look at Apple. But I doubt I would ever switch until I can get equivalents of apps like these on a newer platform:
DateBk6
Launcher X
tryda
PalmOS PIM apps
Chatteremail
Bonsai
Palm's threaded text messaging app
TCPMP
Vexed
MinutesPLUS
CallBlock
TreoAreaCodes
TealLock
HandyShopper
AppLock
Butler
TealOS
Comet
Rollover (or Manana)
... and several dozen other apps that are probably too obscure to ever be recreated on another platform but I would never want to do without (e.g. KeyCaps600)
So many great PalmOS apps getting flushed down the toilet with the rest of the platform. What a waste.
RE: very nice review
Though Palm does indeed need to "get bought out" can you imagine any company fiscally stupid enough to pay $4-5 BILLION for what Palm has to offer?
That's about what Palm would cost right now.
Wait for the stock price to get back down to, say, $2/share THEN see if there's a buyer. That would STILL cost the buyer about a BILLION dollars for what Palm has to offer and, IMHO, would still be financially a Bad Move, but stranger buyouts (er - as strange) HAVE happened! PalmSource was bought for about $300 million and at least they had millions of devices running a solid OS. Palm, of course, would have to cost about 50cents/share to get a buyout price of $300 million.
RE: very nice review
why would anyone buy palm? and why? palm brings nothing to the table - especially in the age of Android which is free.
RE: very nice review
I think your post pretty much summed up the feelings of a lot of folks around here concerning a new "Palm OS". Looks like Palm went after the "flash & dash / bells & whistles" concept first, hoping the dev community would fill the voids left after abandoning a mature OS and it's community. They have allowed decent openness in the platform it seems. So, maybe in 2019, you'll be able to trade in your Centro and equal it's functionality.
Gekko,
WebOS is free too, just not as widely distributed.
Pat Horne
RE: very nice review
You don't see the silliness of clinging to four year old hardware and claiming other platforms don't have equivalent apps? 140,000 apps is obscene. I'm sure you can find a few that do the job you're looking for.
The reason why I'm surprised that there were no lines is because of the tech geeks that complain about Palm only being on Sprint, or Apple only being on AT&T. I think this at least shows that people are full of shit. If you wanted a Pre, you switched to Sprint. And the truth is, not that many people wanted a Pre.
RE: very nice review
#1. Verizon is not confident in the Palm Pre/Pixi enough to invest the millions of dollars to advertise the phone properly around the country. They must not think that they could recoup that money. I don't understand how or why they think that, but that would be the ONLY reason why they wouldn't advertise a brand new product.
#2. It could also mean they are waiting to advertise the new phones until AFTER update 1.4 b/c if you think about it the inability to edit and record video is a big deal since all of the other major smartphones already do it.
My opinion: its #1.
RE: very nice review
On screen keyboards are horrible. I've used a couple and the precision is always lacking. I'd rather take a keyboard with so-so feedback than a virtual one any day. But then this is my opinion and anyone is entitled to their opinion.
RE: very nice review
RE: very nice review
LiveFaith wrote:
Did you mean the Awful House? :-DI wonder if OTA updates are going to address the lags, or if it's just going to be a platform reality? The Pre is not running on junky hardware. Not quite Snapdragon, but it should be snappy if the 3GS is. This is a VERY import issue to customer satisfaction.
I've owned my Pre since mid-June and in my experience the OTA updates tend to improve my unit's performance. Now there are exceptions, 1.3.1 for example was more about adding features and made my Pre slower and introduced stability problems. But for the most part, the nine OTA updates have made my Pre better by adding features and improving performance. Rome wasn't built in a day and the webOS platform won't be either.
Palm Apologist
Shouting down the PIC Faithful Since 2009
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/
RE: very nice review
Also, the iPhone is like all apple products stupidly overpriced :)
Really? 16 GB 3GS for $199 is stupidly overpriced?
At least be honest. You don't like the iPhone because it's an Apple product. I get it. But at least call it like it is. Don't try and bullshit and act like there's another reason. 8.7 million iPhones didn't go to 8.7 million Apple fanboys last quarter. Obviously, people like the OS, keyboard, and apps. And they didn't find it stupidly expensive, either.
RE: very nice review
DR -
1. can your Pre multitask this? can you even play it?
http://www.bloomberg.com/streams/audio/radio_live.asx
2. can your Pre FTP?
RE: very nice review
After seing the legendary PalmSource Swindle go down in slow motion, nothing would surprise me. Elevation Partners took over Palm with some clever shell game moves. After speaking with my old buddy, Munanvalkuainen Aaelismies I think a simlar deal could be pushed through, since Palm's board realizes that their stock price is entering a death spiral with no chance of self-assisted recovery. Palm-for-cash at current rates would be foolhardy, but to wait much longer before pulling the trigger would be risky. The Palm name and the Pre/WebOS buzz are going down faster than Mike Cane at a sailor's convention.
"why would anyone buy palm? and why? palm brings nothing to the table - especially in the age of Android which is free."
First of all, learn how to write properly. Unless you're a 12 year old girl using your mommy's phone to text message another tween you should know that in English we capitalize the first word in a sentence.
Palm's value is it's name, the Treo and Centro designs, carrier relationships, free PalmOS and - most mportantly - WebOS. The Palm name still has value and could be used to sell phones to the tens of millions of people that bought PalmOS devices over the years. The Treo and Centro designs can easily be copied, though for some reason they haven't yet been cloned by a major competitor. Patents? Carrier relationships are meaningless. Produce a hot phone and the carriers will sacrifice their firstborn child to get an exclusive deal. Free PalmOS is fairly meaningless. Access might as well open source PalmOS for all the revenus it's getting from licensees these days. (In fact, Access suffered massive losses and could easily go out of business soon. They are desperately trying to reposition ALP-OS as something that is still relevant in 2010. It isn't. Selling Access to Google to allow inclusion of a PalmOS emulator in Android might be Access' only remaining option right now.) WebOS is the key. Having your very own robust, scalable platform could be a nice way for a manufacturer to make their stand out from the rest of the pack.
RE: very nice review
You were willing to compromise on user input method and adapted to the Apple onscreen keyboard. Try to understand that not all of us are willing to make that compromise. For the last damn time, quit trying to assume that your feelings reflect those of all smartphone users and that your opinion is more valid than the next person's. Perhaps you've heard what they say about opinions...
You come across like a Steve Jobs fluffer. Wake up. Just because the iPhone was the first "smartphone" (not really) to get a lot of things right doesn't mean that it didn't also get a LOT of things wrong as well. Lack of a hardware keyboard is a dealbreaker for many potential iPhone customers.
I recently had to get the keygen for TealOS. (TealOS on a Centro actually seems MORE functional than WebOS on a Pre. Way to go, Palm!) I have now downloaded the latest versions of all of the apps that I use as well as keygens for many of them and MultiUserHack. I paid for my shareware apps, so I don't plan on getting screwed when the developers go out of business and can't provide me with new registration keys if I change devices or user names. "A Good PalmOS Survivalist Is Always Prepared."
"You don't see the silliness of clinging to four year old hardware and claiming other platforms don't have equivalent apps? 140,000 apps is obscene. I'm sure you can find a few that do the job you're looking for."
If PalmOS apps are fast, efficient, familiar, and just plain get the job done better than anything else then I don't see using PalmOS as being anythig other than a smart decision. People like you are so bedazzled by the flashiness of the iPhone that you've forgotten that flash is a poor substitute for functionality. I never said other platforms don't have apps. What I said is I'll wait until other platforms have apps that can replace the ones that I rely on. If you have ever used a slick PalmOS app like DateBk 6 to its fullest you would realize how hard it can be for other platforms to beat a well designed PalmOS app in terms of speed, ease of use and user interface. You braying about "140,000" iPhone apps is as stupid as Palm's previous boasts about "over 30,000" PalmOS apps circa 2001. Everyone knows that in both cases probably well over 90% of those apps are utter crap. In Palm's case it was the pathetic "list" programs coded by a junior high school shitehead with PDAToolbox (MyVideoList, MyCDList, MyShoppingList, MyPackingList...). In Apple's case it's the 139,000 "fart" apps in the App Store. The real issue is how good are the "best" 1000 PalmOS apps compared to the "best" iPhoneOS apps, and are there any missing app niches in either platform. Unless you're willing to discuss the platforms honestly in those terms you're just another trolling Apple fanboi cum Jobs fluffer.
"The reason why I'm surprised that there were no lines is because of the tech geeks that complain about Palm only being on Sprint, or Apple only being on AT&T. I think this at least shows that people are full of shit. If you wanted a Pre, you switched to Sprint. And the truth is, not that many people wanted a Pre."
So Polyanna just now realizes that people are full of shite? Wow. That's a special world you live in there, Princess. Apple has sold tens of millions of iPhones, mostly on AT&T despite its pathetic network. When iPhone reaches Verizon its sales will go through the roof because for many its plain and simple the best phone/OS/app/style package on the market these days. No one wants the WebOS phones on ANY network because there are already better hardware/OS/app/style packages availabe on every network. The fact that prices for WebOS phones are getting slashed every week shows how poor the demand is. The fact that Palm won't announce honest sales figures shows how poor the demand is. And the fact that Verizon isn't bothering to advertise or stock up on WebOS phones shows how poor the demand is. WebOS needs iPhone quality hardware + bugfixes + massive speed improvements + hype + a tenfold increase in its app store just to have a snowball's chance in Hell of competing with iPhone. Instead, all we're seeing is CPP (Crippled Pixi Phones) and incremental fixing of bugs + addition of critical missing features that should all have been dealt with BEFORE the first Pre ever shipped...
No one bought Treo 800w, Treo Pro, Pre or Pixi. The Centro was the only sales success Palm has had in the past 2 years and that was because they were practically giving them away. Once superior hardware like the Android phones and iPhone are on all networks, Palm's sales will evaporate. Most phone sales decisions are made after the Average Joe plays with a demo phone in a shop for a few minutes. Somehow I suspect the flash, luscious big screens and hype of iPhone and Android phones like the Droid are going to sell more phones than the non-functioning Pre displays with cryptic references to "Synergy". (WTF is Synergy, Jonny?) iPhone on Verizon +/- Sprint = lights out for an independent Palm. Maybe Bono can pass the hat at a few concerts and send Rubenstein & Co the bucks they need to get WebOS on some competitive hardware?
RE: very nice review
At least be honest. You don't like the iPhone because it's an Apple product. I get it. But at least call it like it is. Don't try and bullshit and act like there's another reason. 8.7 million iPhones didn't go to 8.7 million Apple fanboys last quarter. Obviously, people like the OS, keyboard, and apps. And they didn't find it stupidly expensive, either.[/quote]
I assume that is with some kind of contract or that you are in a country where things are cheap. The iPhone 3GS 16GB costs roughly $650 here and that is with a monthly cost of $40 added to it on a 2 year contract. That is not what I define as cheap...
RE: very nice review
You braying about "140,000" iPhone apps is as stupid as Palm's previous boasts about "over 30,000" PalmOS apps circa 2001. Everyone knows that in both cases probably well over 90% of those apps are utter crap.
Oh Christ, here we go again with an idiot claiming all the apps are iFart clones. You want to know why there are 140K apps? Because every single corporation has seen it as ESSENTIAL to getting exposure. Apple even gets free advertising out of it. Have you seen the new Geico commercial about their new iPhone app? By the way, I have their car insurance, and the app is FANTASTIC. Furthermore, every single one of my banks and credit cards have a native app that I can use to check my balance, pay my bill, or find ATM's, etc. This is where the 140K comes from.
It has its fair share of shit ringtone-type apps, but the signal-to-noise in the app store is no higher than other platforms. Android has plenty of shit apps, too. But I've said this before. The real test is looking out into the smartphone market and seeing what the hottest new apps are. Which platforms are they available on? If Android and WinMo have exclusive access to some awesome applications and the iPhone doesn't have it, sure, I will cede this point to you. But time and time again, developers code their new ideas for the iPhone first, and everything else second. Don't get me started on the sheer power of some of these apps, too.
Want a Datebk replacement on iPhone? Agendus is available in the app store.
RE: very nice review
Well, look, kids! It's SKIPPY! Like a bad case of herpes, you'll never know when he'll flare up.
How is it down in that bunker with that stockpile of CLIE TH55s?!
You look a bit pale, lad. Get out some more,. But not around here.
RE: very nice review
"It has its fair share of shit ringtone-type apps, but the signal-to-noise in the app store is no higher than other platforms. Android has plenty of shit apps, too. But I've said this before. The real test is looking out into the smartphone market and seeing what the hottest new apps are. Which platforms are they available on? If Android and WinMo have exclusive access to some awesome applications and the iPhone doesn't have it, sure, I will cede this point to you. But time and time again, developers code their new ideas for the iPhone first, and everything else second. Don't get me started on the sheer power of some of these apps, too."
"Want a Datebk replacement on iPhone? Agendus is available in the app store."
Sit down and take a Valium, Kiddo. The spittle and froth dripping from your slack jaw might just short out your MaxiPad/MacBook, iPad, MiniPad/iPhone and stain your iFlufferKneePads. The comment about the iPhone fart apps is what is known as sarcasm. Yes, iPhone has tens of thousands of apps available. Yes, many of them are very useful and/or good. Yes, Apple's platform is where most developers are focusing their efforts these days. Yes, many iPhone apps do similar things as what PalmOS apps do. The point is that PalmOS still just plain WORKS for many of us and we have no need or interest in moving to your precious iPhone. Furthermore, just because iPhone apps are newer and flashier than many PalmOS apps doesn't mean that they are better than (or even as good as) the PalmOS apps. Case in point: DateBk 6. I can enter, organize and view schedule data on a Centro much more effectively and faster than on an iPhone (or Android device, or Blackberry, or Windows Mobile device, or Symbian device, for that matter). The absence of that one app and a physical keyboard* means iPhone is of no interest to me as long as my Centro keeps working. Someday hopefully you'll understand that not everyone has the same (lack of) taste and (effed up) priorities that you do. Carry on.
* I've used the iPhone onscreen keyboard. It sucks harder than you at Steve's cabana.
RE: very nice review
abosco wrote:
And doesn't a Pre cost $599 off contract? Another $50 for double the storage space hardly sounds like a price gouge.
Double storage yes. And with that I get a crappy calendar, a crappy on screen keyboard and an apple product that, as you very accurately note, I do not like :)
Dr Opinion + Jeff Kirvin
The Pre hardware is crap and WebOS was released a year before it was ready. The Pre calendar is worse than the PalmOS options and the Pre hardware keyboard is horrible. Anyone who bought a Pre is either a masochist, a beta tester, or an idiot. We know which of these you are.
RE: very nice review
IMO, Palm needs to respin the Treo Pro formfactor into a a "Treo Plus". That overlooked gem was the best pice of hardware to come out of Palm since the m500 series IMHO (I'm disregarding WinMob, of course). The Treo Pro was sleek, slim, stylish, fairly well built, and had REAL buttons atop a REAL keyboard. Palm also saw fit to throw in niceties like IR, a decently capacious battery and a microSD slot as well. It had enough of the Rubinstein influence (sleek, slim, stylish, nice packaging) without having enough of his influence to become Apple-ized and dumbed down (feeble battery, no IR, no microSD slot, no physical buttons, awkward keyboard etc).
Palm needs to add a 3rd WebOS device to the lineup ASAP. They should resurrect the Treo moniker when doing so and make it a flagship product oriented at power users and early adopter types. They could (and should) make it something along the lines of a Treo Pro + HTC HD2 hybrid. Replace the d-pad and the hard buttons with the gesture area, keep the green & red buttons (downsize 'em slightly), and at MINIMUM have the Pre's screen on there. Stick no less than 32GB storage (or 8GB + microSD slow) + 1GB RAM and a 1Ghz Snapdragon in that thing to make up for the hideous sluggishness of WebOS. Include the Touchstone standard in the box. Bingo! Instant flagship product and instant positive buzz. And please, address WebOS' weak PIM capabilities while you're at it!
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid
Palm nightmare: $100 Centro is a BETTER phone than $600 Pre
If they had spent the past year developing instead of in bugfix mode they could have put out a reasonable OS. They hired Chatteremail author Marc Blank and could have had a decent email program 2 YEARS ago.
"IMO, Palm needs to respin the Treo Pro formfactor into a a "Treo Plus". That overlooked gem was the best pice of hardware to come out of Palm since the m500 series IMHO (I'm disregarding WinMob, of course). The Treo Pro was sleek, slim, stylish, fairly well built, and had REAL buttons atop a REAL keyboard. Palm also saw fit to throw in niceties like IR, a decently capacious battery and a microSD slot as well. It had enough of the Rubinstein influence (sleek, slim, stylish, nice packaging) without having enough of his influence to become Apple-ized and dumbed down (feeble battery, no IR, no microSD slot, no physical buttons, awkward keyboard etc)."
The Treo Pro was fragile and unstable. The form factor was decent, but Palm needs a big-screened WebOS phone more than anything
"Palm needs to add a 3rd WebOS device to the lineup ASAP. They should resurrect the Treo moniker when doing so and make it a flagship product oriented at power users and early adopter types. They could (and should) make it something along the lines of a Treo Pro + HTC HD2 hybrid. Replace the d-pad and the hard buttons with the gesture area, keep the green & red buttons (downsize 'em slightly), and at MINIMUM have the Pre's screen on there. Stick no less than 32GB storage (or 8GB + microSD slow) + 1GB RAM and a 1Ghz Snapdragon in that thing to make up for the hideous sluggishness of WebOS. Include the Touchstone standard in the box. Bingo! Instant flagship product and instant positive buzz. And please, address WebOS' weak PIM capabilities while you're at it!"
The Pre and Pixi look like utter crap compared to the phones we've seen coming out recently. Palm still doesn't seem to realize that incremental upgrades spread out over a 5 year phone life cycle won't cut it in 2010. iPhone was a game changer that made people expect more (style, memory, screen, apps, ease of use, etc) for their money. Like it or not, EVERY phone from now on will get compared to iPhone. Until Palm brings something BETTER than iPhone to market they're just gonna keep on burning through Elevation Partners' seed money.
I recently compared a Sprint 128 MB 2nd edition Centro to the unlocked GSM Centro. The Sprint version feels a lot better. The soft touch finish makes the phone feel a lot more solid + there are no squeaks from the casing like I saw with the plasticy GSM version. Let's see: $100 Centro or $600 Pre? Not exactly hard decision.
RE: very nice review
Heck, I always thought Palm should've sent Garnet & the Treo off properly with some kind of "deluxe" final model: If nothing else, a 128MB Centro retrofitted with a killer software bundle, 3.5mm headphone jack and bigger LCD & battery would've been a nice parting gift for Palm OS users (perhaps even in a larger Treo Pro-derived formfactor). It certainly would have made for a nice stopgap to give WebOS the extra ~6 months of development and bugfixing time it desperately needed. Oh well.
P.S. Seeing the baffling continued "success" of the Peek e-mail gadget and the new iPad buzz cheap data service reminds me of 2 years or so ago when I pleaded with Palm to release a "non-phone" wireless communicator. Basically, a Centro with the telephony component ripped out and tweaked for e-mail/web/messaging. Had they partnered up with someone (Virgin Mobile on Sprint's network would've been a natural) and sell these things at retail for $100 and some kind of pre & post-paid $30-$35/month unlimited data-only service. That would've been a natural fit for Garnet's dwindling capabilties + the kiddies & the Mike Cane types would've gone nuts over it. If nothing else, it would've been a nice little niche "recession buster" device for Palm that could've helped wring a few more $ out of the Centro tooling and R&D. Oh well again.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid
RE: very nice review
peek is a success??? seems silly to me. kids will just text. and ive never seen one out in the wild.
Special edition Centro with WebOS
RE: very nice review
I was wondering what he would think of the new OS. Nobody else on this forum is quite so opinionated or verbose. Welcome back. I miss the rants (seriously.)
I agree with you about the Centro. I'm very happy with it. I'd be happier with the Pre if not for the lack of native compatibility with Palm OS apps. I busted on the Facebook app before but since then I've become hooked on Facebook.
RE: very nice review
Over a year since the WebOS unveiling at CES, we still don't have video recording, flash, voice dialing, or external expansion card support. Heck, WebOS doesn't even support autodialing your voicemail PIN! So I highly, highly doubt there is any code secretly embeeded within WebOS to support something like a Centro 5-way directional pad. Besides, WebOS is miserable enough at 320x480 or 320x400. 320x320 would be nigh unusable on that tiny screen.
Now, use Garnet instead and that Centro 2 receipe you just described (and I mentioned 18 months or so ago) would've made far more sense in 2008 as a final Palm OS device to bridge the loooong gap between the Centro and the Pre.
Right now the quickest way for Palm get their hardware back on track would be to bump the Pixi up to 320x480 (fewer headaches for developers and users alike) and give it a slightly larger LCD & CPU.
Boost the Pre up to, say, an 800Mhz CPU or at least give it a 32GB option and the bigger battery it so desperatey needs.
Then introduce a flagship device with a 3.7"+ OLED screen, 1Ghz Snapdragon CPU, and a microSD slot. Remove the physical keyboard to allow for a larger battery and thinner device. Waitaminute--Palm insists on a physical keyboard and WebOS doesn't support a virtual one so we'll have to give it a nice wide landscape slider keyboard. Waitaminute again--WebOS wants you to be in portrait orientation 90% of the time and none of the apps aren't optimized for landscape mode. Ok, never mind, Palm's once again toast due to their OS. Only this time what's limiting them is a half-baked OS that only rigidly supports a certain device formfactor instead of the good ol' days when Palm had a crusty old OS that didn't support the latest technology. Looks like they're just gonna have to tough it out with the Pre Plus and Pixi Plus for another year!
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid
RE: very nice review
today -
client breakfast - Droid
client lunch - iPhone, Blackberry
still no sign of Pre or Pixi anywhere.
RE: very nice review
you should keep a daily tally of how many days pass until you experience a firsthand WebOS device sighting.
I'm still at (I think) 3 WebOS devices---my boss' Pre Plus, a guy furiously returning his Sprint Pre to BB, then one sighting last summer shortly after launch where a 20-something hipster was rocking a Pre. I've yet to see a Pixi in the wild.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid
RE: very nice review
your boss don't count. returns don't count.
+1 for the hipster. they have those in the South?
Dell Mini 5
do we have a new contender?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjBcv9iZinY
Con - this looks right up your alley. 5" display? maybe you ARE finally getting a Dell, dude.
RE: Dell Mini 5
Hey, Dell, there's the iPad at $499. Have you heard of it?
RE: Dell Mini 5
...Then goes on to say
"and - most mportantly - WebOS. "
Sir, with your opening volley you moved into a glass house. Time to stop throwing rocks.
You might take your some of your own advice. Perhaps use a browser with a spell checker. Such things can be most "mportant" to saving face. Then consider the usage of commas or brackets rather than hyphens in the above.
Just saying...
Former devices:
PalmPro (2mb IR upgrade), IIIx, TrgPro, HandEra 330, Palm Tungsten|C
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very nice review
did the boss treat you to lunch at the waffle house on the way back?