The Inside Story of the Death of Palm and webOS
The Verge has published an excellent insiders look into the "death of Palm and webOS." The well researched article looks back at Palm's efforts to revive the platform and companies fortunes in the last five years of its existence.
The piece, which includes quotes and commentary from a number of former Palm employees and engineers, primarily focuses on the efforts of building and launching webOS and the ensuing struggle to market.
History has proven that tossing out a familiar platform that prints money for your business and starting anew isn't easy: just ask Apple and Microsoft, whose next-generation desktop operating systems in the 1990s (codenamed "Copland" and "Cairo," respectively) floundered aimlessly for years before being replaced with other initiatives. The politics of a mobile platform are no different. The entire process can quickly devolve into a holy war, it turns out, never mind the risk of alienating your users and third-party developers — the very people by whom any platform is ultimately made or broken.
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Sad story
Palm had such a phenomenal lead in the mobile sector, but they wasted half a decade iterating minor Garnet device upgrades, rather than innovating. I'm far from an Apple fan, but the reason they have done so well is their absolute thirst for innovation and product design, and a penchant for taking the long view.
Peace Out
Alan
Sad Story
I hung on to my Palm Treo (hoping for Palm to come to their senses) until I bought a Windows 7 laptop and could no longer easily sync my phone. I ended up buying an iPod Touch and never looked back and now have an iPhone and an iPad.
RE: Sad Story
2) Technically, it is now possible to do a wired (not just wireless) HotSync on a Windows 7 computer
(Try this link: http://aceeca.com/index.php?option=com_maqmahelpdesk&Itemid=5&id_workgroup=1&task=downloads_category&id=8
3) Notice how Google is learning from HP's mistake, in that Google is NOT pricing their new tablet higher than the iPad. In my view, the burden of proof falls on the non-Apple companies to make a better slate than the iPad, and only THEN should those companies price their slates at or above the iPad level.
Interesting but irrelevant article
Let's not forget the Foleo. It had a nice OS too.
If Palm had put one-half the money and effort they ended up putting into the Foleo OS and WebOS into Cobalt, Palm would've been years ahead of Android and iOS.
Swan Song
Jeff and Donna called 3Com's bluff, started Handspring and reinvented the PDA again. Did the smartphone right and with that success, shot into Jeff's passion, neuroscience, doing Numenta.
IMO, this is when Palm started to waver.
In came the corporate "experts" the social "experts" and everyone else who never worked in a company less than a thousand employees in size. There were detachments, partitions and counter efforts.
IMO Palm OS 6 Cobalt was the best OS that never shipped. Had the hardware / software design wall was not as high, perhaps the OS would not require such then expensive components to hit the right price points as has been posted in many developer and rant groups all over the net.
To me webOS was a day late and a dollar short with no native code and no backwards compatible API for the existing developer community. Again, throwing the decade of app that made the platform great under the bus was another drop that started the Swan Song.
I'm glad to see a book out documenting the fall. I'm sure as more NDAs sunset and other key employees move on, we'll hear more. I'm most looking forward to all of the Palm device concept artwork and prototypes that are still locked up. Oh, I'd love to see the so much rumored "two screen" Palm where you could launch two Palm apps side by side and never happened due to parts cost. Also, why the LifeDrive team was so missing the mark for the market is another narrative of corporate introversion.
Palm, it was a fun run. I'll keep my Cobalt Blue cube right next to the Newton stuff I collected over the years.
Live and learn!
RE: Swan Song
I wonder if we'll ever see the definitive tale of why Cobalt was such a debacle and why OS5 was kept on life support for years past the 2002-2003 timeframe it was intended to be used as an interim solution.
Palm's continued missteps in both hardware and software from 2001-2007 really cost them dearly. Just when they finally got the hardware down pat (T|C & T|T3 in '03), they got distracted with the spin-off and OS5 started to become a laggy, patched-together mess.
The LifeDrive remains the poster child for Palm dysfunction for sure. Such potential there and they totally squandered it. Almost makes you think someone from high up wanted to botch that device so they'd have an excuse to give up on the "non-phone" market as as well as high-end, large-screen devices. And look now, 7 years later, the market is mad for....large-screen media devices (both phones and non-phones).
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro-> Verizon Moto Droid X2 + Palm TX
RE: Swan Song
Kris, I've lost your email but there is some stuff going down that I'd like to tell you about...
Gary
gmayhak@aol.com
Tech Center Labs
www.talestuff.com
www.iTalentProductions.com
RE: Swan Song
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro-> Verizon Moto Droid X2 + Palm TX
RE: Swan Song
RE: Swan Song
Gary
Tech Center Labs
www.talestuff.com
www.iTalentProductions.com
RE: Swan Song
There have been rumors he is / was in jail or a is very early Palm employee going back to Jeff's GRiD days that has sour grapes. Unmasking this guy makes for a good falling action here.
RE: Swan Song
BTW, TVoR posted here, oh, 6 months or so ago so he still pops in occasionally.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro-> Verizon Moto Droid X2 + Palm TX
RE: Swan Song
I realized it's 5 years since I last logged into PIC forums!!
It is really a sad story.
I still love my T3 very much, even if it is now just a very polished paperweight...
And it is still a pleasure reading at comments from people like you, who really made this website living.
I converted my family to Palm, some years ago: a Treo 650 to my sister (just replaced by iPhone4S) and a Treo 680 to my father (still going very strong!).
After the death of my T3 I was the only non-palm at home! ;-))
Now discovered Android 4.0 onto a Galaxy Tab 7plus: really the Palm successor, even if I miss graffiti a lot!!
Keep up the good work, even if not in Palm-land!
Cheers!
TheFez
RE: Some new Palm News!
Another problem is it's missing the Memos app.
The biggest problem is $49.95! I'll just use my Centro or PV for trips down memory lane.
Gary
Tech Center Labs
www.talestuff.com
www.iTalentProductions.com
RE: Some new Palm News!
My TX still gets use as an audio player with the projector upstairs, but this news actually excited me for a bit. After years of having two devices in my pocket, my TX and a dumb phone, with the dumb phone being the device that was always dead when I needed it because I never tracked it's charge, I moved to an Android phone. First an Optimus One, and now a Nexus device.
It's funny that with all the advancements, certain programs still don't measure up to what I came to love with the PalmOS apps. I finally am able to have a working solution for most of my apps, but the big one was Ultrasoft Money. I still use another dead product, MS Money, and this was the only app that really made it usable for both. With this StyleTap app, I was able to import databases into the Nexus. Pretty cool! I can't figure out a way to export if I track expenses while away, but that's not that bad, as I mostly liked the bill reminder and budget to play with while out and about. I even pulled out my old Palm Tungsten C to sit next to the computer and sync, and then run a script to one step sync to google drive, and import from my phone. Surprisingly easy and efficient!!
On the other hand, $50 for this is cost prohibitive to me. I'll be playing for the trial period, and then let it go...
Thanks to all for their enjoyable debates, even if I walked away pissed at the negativity towards the Palm I thought would succeed...!!! :D
RE: Some new Palm News!
RE: Some new Palm News!
Jellybean for Touch Pad
Out with the old & in with the new :-/
Probably a good thing.
I'm starting to kinda like Android and the new Nexus 7 tablet with Jellybean is a pretty awesome little tablet.
Gary,
http://www.iTalentProductions.com
Tech Center Labs
www.talestuff.com
www.iTalentProductions.com
RE: Jellybean for Touch Pad
It has pretty good interface to Graphics, Bluetooth and other Android bells & whistles. There is even a way to publish apps you've written. It's called Basic!... http://laughton.com/basic/help/De_Re_BASIC%21.htm
Gary
Tech Center Labs
www.talestuff.com
www.iTalentProductions.com
RE: Jellybean for Touch Pad
This is on a Nexus 7...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6eEASjgQFc
Gary
Tech Center Labs
www.talestuff.com
www.iTalentProductions.com
RE: Palm is now GRAM (?)
Searching for a Palm OS app. (help!)
Can somebody please help me? I am looking for Steven Kienle's "Reminders" app., but I need version 2.8 for my Treo 755p.
I tried FreewarePalm.com's version 2.7 and it crashed my phone (my understanding is that version 2.8 is for Palm OS 5 devices like my Treo), and yet I am having NO LUCK AT ALL when I try to download version 2.8 from that website.
I have searched for version 2.8 across the internet, to no avail.
Does anybody have Reminders v2.8 ??? Can somebody please contact me, publicly or privately?
Thank you very much.
Best,
HyperScheduler
RE: Could this mean a new webos device is in the works
Even if Palm would have been at the top of their game HP just can't get it right any more! They recently did a Limited Addition release of one of the best loved calculators HP ever produced, the HP15c.
Instead of the original double injected molded keys they were silkscreened painted in China. In fact it was all made in China and to top that one of the most useful functions PSE (Pause) is buggy. When a company forgets the importance of quality it's time to hang it up.
Gary
www.BattSix.com
Tech Center Labs
www.talestuff.com
www.iTalentProductions.com
RE: Could this mean a new webos device is in the works
Re: Another HP-15C LE bug? --> serious power management bug
Message #45 Posted by robert rozee on 3 Oct 2011, 2:48 p.m.,
in response to message #44 by Mike Morrow
Quote:
This sort of issue is one of many that will deny the 15C-LE status as a bona fide re-issue of the 15C [...]
a nearly 30 year old 15C has a fairly good chance of still being fully functional today. the IC fabrication technology was optimized with extra internal layers to promote long life. the keyboard was engineered with materials far exceeding the design requirements. the plastics chosen and moulding methods used stood the test of time. the original machine was built to the mantra: ONE calculator to last the LIFETIME of the owner.
a 2011 model 12C/15C is built using a processor with a designed materials lifespan of perhaps 10 years, keyboard (including contacts) and plastic parts that are 'just good enough'. the LCD is attached with a printed flex + glue system that is known to fail over time (several years) - though said failure will in 99% of units be safely outside of the 1-year limited warranty. and the PCB assembly uses a lead-free soldering process that is guaranteed to fail before this decade is out.
the technology all round is a compromise that (a) minimizes cost, (b) maximizes shareholder revenue, while (c) producing a product that will just adequately fulfil the expectations of a 21st century consumer that is used to a disposable calculator that will need to be replaced after a few years because of irreparable failure.
not wanting to criticize the modern 12C/15C design team - they have done a great job (ignoring keyboard failures in one batch and power-hungry firmware) to fulfil the modern design specifications - but the modern 12C/15C is as much a collectable 'design classic' as a $1 plastic flower pot painted up to look like a ming dynasty vase.
Tech Center Labs
www.talestuff.com
www.iTalentProductions.com
RE: Could this mean a new webos device is in the works
Apparently, they really don't make 'em like they used to.
So... where is everyone now?
Gary
BattSix.com
Tech Center Labs
www.talestuff.com
www.iTalentProductions.com
RE: So... where is everyone now?
I carried some combination of Palm OS PDA + a small flip phone from 1996-2006 before going Treo (700p). Finding that the Treo was such a dreadful phone, I went back to dual devices (Treo with a data-only play as PDA/email machine, flip phone for talking & texting). That sufficed until 2009 when I got the original Droid 1 on VZW on launch day. Android, in its initial 2008-2009 Donut/Eclair/Froyo form, left a lot to be desired, so I still made do with the Droid (for talking & texting & web browsing) and a Centro (for email & PIM) for about 6 months until I felt that the Android ecosystem had matured significantly and was gaining traction in the marketplace. I then grudgingly put Palm OS out to pasture other than the occasional game or quick refence lookup on my trusty TX. Other than fooling around with an iPod Touch for a while (primarily for app/game testing), and a brief time with a few firesale TouchPads (ugh) I have been 100% Android ever since. It'd be neat to have an iPad to play around with but I cannot really justify one unless a Mini would roll around for a very good price.
I still think Android has a LOT of shortcomings (horrible fragmentation, too many orphaned devices, a horribly organized Play Store, TOO many resource-hogging manufacturer UI skins, poor power management) but the variety of hardware options, formfactors and openness make it #1 in my book. I still wish that there was a Palm-style mobile OS out there NOT made by someone with a vested interest in cloud computing/search engine results/e-commerce/media sales. I agree with Gary that nothing will ever approach the golden years of Palm OS ('96-'01) but I must admit that from 2009-2010, Android did have a little of that feeling, as the ecosystem was growing by leaps and bounds and the sky seemed to be the limit. Something cool (CyanogenMod etc) was seemingly happening every other day!
For example, Android is rapidly dropping support for external expansion cards and the latest crop of devices have neutered internal storage (really, the flagship Nexus 4 is only available in 8Gb and 16Gb options? This is not 2009!) in a pitiful attempt to push "the cloud" We have battery-sucking LTE on one hand, slow & limited HSPA coverage on the other thand and data tiers and caps all around. For just a few bucks I can get a nice big 64Gb microSDXC card and store all of my media on there and still have room to spare.
Right now I have a Galaxy SIII on VZW along with a Nexus 7 tablet. It's a nice combo but I am still awaiting a Nexus-style tablet with a screen larger than 7" but smaller than 10". I have also traditionally used Motorola handsets due to their superior RF performance, battery life and build quality, but their hardware lineup has totally gone off a cliff in the past year. I'm not exactly thrilled with this Samsung, however, and am itching for a reason to go back to Moto. My absolute dream device now would be a Motorola phablet with a 5" (give or take) 1080p screen, S4 Pro SoC + 2Gb RAM, at least 32Gb of internal storage + microSD slot, and a 3300mAh or larger battery.
Sorry for being long-winded but it was fun to wax nostalgic again on PIC for old times' sake. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro-> Verizon Moto Droid X2 + Palm TX
RE: So... where is everyone now?
I started with a Palm m515 in late 2002. Personally, I preferred to wait until a Palm device had a nice color screen (as opposed to the now-nostalgic look of the green and black). I used this wonderful device until the Treo 650 (circa 2005-2007), then the Treo 755p (circa 2007-2009).
I am a DateBk6 fanatic, and the only reason I switched to an iPhone is because the hardware of my Treo 755p was falling apart.
I have been using an iPhone 3GS for 3 years now, though the calendar-to-Google-Calendar system is so childlike and basic compared to Palm and DateBk6. It is nearly impossible to search one's own calendar!
Believe it or not, I am actually making a transition BACK to Palm OS! My goal is to resume Palm-ing for all of my calendaring, but continue using an iPhone for everything else.
No joke: I sincerely, truly want to be the LAST PERSON ON EARTH who is still actively using Palm OS.
May I respectfully ask your opinion-- how many people right now are using Palm OS? 100,000 people? 1,000 people?
Also, when it comes to the magical ease-of-use and intuitive nature of Palm OS, I believe that iOS (as opposed to Android) is the true heir to Palm OS.
RE: So... where is everyone now?
holy shit Grandpa Gary left Apple for Android? i'm shocked!
i'm using a launch day Sprint Samsung Galaxy Nexus that replaced a launch day Sprint HTC EVO 4G that replaced a Sprint Palm Centro. i love pure Android.
Check out my apps!
ASTRO File Manager
Chrome to Phone
CNN
CNNMoney
Documents To Go
Documents To Go Full Version Key
Dropbox
Fancy Widgets
Fancy Widgets Unlocker
Google Finance
FlightTrack
Goggles
HistoryEraser
HP ePrint Home&Biz
Jorte
Lookout
MightyText
MyBackup Pro
NBC Local News
Nova Launcher
Nova Launcher Prime
OfficeSuite Pro 6 + (PDF & HD)
OnTheFly
Pandora
Parcels
Quick Calendar
Bloomberg Radio+
ShareMyApps
Shazam
Talkatone
Translate
TuneIn Radio Pro
WiFi@Home
Zagat
RE: So... where is everyone now?
I went completely into Android, and have purchased replacement apps for everything I had on my Palm (even iSilo and "DateBk" are available!). So far only one device, the Huawei U8220, but the next device will be purchased in December or January. I got into the geekier side of things, and created some some fairly popular modified roms for the phone. (Still "twrock" over at MoDaCo: http://www.modaco.com/forum/413-t-mobile-pulse-pulsemodacocom/) My next phone will be at least at least a 1.2ghz dual-core, 4.3" screen, probably something inexpensive out of China. Having the skills to modify my own roms has come in really handy when it comes to choosing a phone. :-)
I never could see myself getting locked into Apple's walled garden, so that was never an option in my mind. No regrets there.
But to this day, I still wish the idiots hadn't killed Palm. It was so sweet when it was good....
And of course, I can't resist taking another jab at all those obnoxious Apple fanbois who hung out here, mocked us, and told us that Apple could never lose in the mobile space. Yeah, really? :-)
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/20/open_and_shut/
RE: So... where is everyone now?
Well, you'll have to outlast me then! I still am using three devices, the TX, T3, and I have come to really enjoy the Lifedrive that I carry with me most of the time. By the way I picked up the Lifedrive for around $40 on Amazon and wasn't expecting to like it as much as the other two but I ended up enjoying it more.
The last known classic PDA user.
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Nice wrap up by Chris Z.
Here is my comment on the Verge,
"I remember my first encounter with the Palm IIIxe. I didn't have any older brothers or friends who were into technology. I had only briefly heard about the Palm Pilot. I finally had someone who was wanting to sell theirs and gave it to me to use. I was completely mesmirized. I couldn't believe such a product existed, I loaded ebooks, documents, contacts, pictures, and I begin checking their website almost daily to check for new products.
It is so sad to think about how they had 100% of my mind share as well as many others but due to what seems to be corporate greed, threw it all way for short term profits.
This is why I admire companies like Google, Apple, and Amazon who seem to have it in their DNA to think long term, sacrificing short term profits for the good of the long term."