Palm Doesn't View Windows CE 4.0 as a Threat

Posted By: Ed Tuesday, August 21, 2001 11:04:44 AM

In an interview with ComputerWorld, Michael Mace, Palm's chief competitive officer, said he doesn't see the upcoming release of of the next version of the PocketPC OS as much of a threat.

"This sounds like an incremental release of their product, and it's a lot of stuff you can do today in a Palm handheld," he said. "We already have support for 802.xx, and our OS is so simple, our developers don't need a wizard."

The next version of the PPC OS, code-named Merlin, has increased support for the wireless standard 802.11b and a platform wizard to make it easier for developers to write for different devices. This is necessary as applications written for one company's PPC handhelds have to be recompiled in order to run on another company's.

WinCE 4.0 should be available by the end of the year but Microsoft is notorious for missing its release dates.

Thanks to Jonathan Ng for the tip. -Ed

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MS going into hardware

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2001 11:25:59 AM #
There sound rumors that for the first time in history Microsoft will go with his next generation of PDA software e.g. 4.0 into hardware-production itself.

This will be funny!


RE: MS going into hardware
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2001 11:29:41 AM #
say wha?

RE: MS going into hardware
Flash @ 8/21/2001 1:01:59 PM #
Yeah, huh?

**Flash**
--Martin Sheen is my President.--
www.votescount2002.com
I think they are saying that PPC4 may include a MSFT-made
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2001 1:14:14 PM #
hardware unit. I doubt it though.

RE: MS going into hardware
Spock9 @ 8/21/2001 3:05:23 PM #
Hmmm...If that's the case it sounds like it is trying to duplicate Palm in their business model. Perhaps they are seeing the light. Yeah right.

RE: MS going into hardware
AriB @ 8/21/2001 5:06:43 PM #
wouldn't that piss off HP and Compaq? After all HP is already going to come out with a linux Jornada and Compaq has handhelds.org to bring linux to the ipaq. Maybe linux will be the PDA OS of choice in 5 years?

RE: MS going into hardware
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/22/2001 4:08:10 AM #
MS could easy piss on there OM's - as you like to quote it like that - why not?
Palm had exactly the same OM model till now. They where hardware and OS producer ,competing with the OM's machines.
Not really uncommon thought.

Forget CE 4, it's PPC 2002 that should scare Palm!

mikecane @ 8/21/2001 11:45:57 AM #
Ah, this is the Michael Mace who continues to repeat, "85% of our customers don't want MP3 or multimedia." And yet I'd bet that the "15%" who do and who have been buying Sony's CLIE have done so in numbers that exceed those who have been buying the Palm m505.

Talisker is too far in the future to worry about, agreed. But Pocket PC 2002 is what *Palm* **2001** should have been: multimedia rich on kick-ass SA chips. As great as the CLIE is, its video capabilities pale when put up against an iPaq. And with HP, Compaq, Casio, and now Toshiba and NEC coming out with SA-based PPCs running PPC 2002, Palm is going to be looking for landfills to accept many of their more-expensive units.

Integrating BeOS into PalmOS is going to take time. If Palm survives until that time, it will be astonishing. If they manage to save their business, it will be a miracle. Perhaps by addressing strictly the lower-end of the market, they can survive. But that's hardly the market they have wanted to be in.

RE: Forget CE 4, it's PPC 2002 that should scare Palm!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2001 12:06:06 PM #

and the PocketPC trolls keep coming...

RE: Forget CE 4, it's PPC 2002 that should scare Palm!
Meirav @ 8/21/2001 12:12:31 PM #
I disagree strongly about the iPaq's video capabilities. It is not superior to the Clie, but I thought it was comparable.

What I did find to the iPaq's benefit is that it no longer has that performance lag when doing tasks compared to a Palm-based device. I did find the Windows Explorer-based interface a bit cumbersome, though.

RE: Forget CE 4, it's PPC 2002 that should scare Palm!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2001 12:19:38 PM #
The only thing wrong with iPAQ's video capabilities are that it's only 12-bit.

gMovie-ing off the Memory Stick is slow, and doesn't have enough fps without hacks. TealMovie doesn't support sound.

iPAQs have a bigger screen (though the Clie has better resolution) and more storage.

RE: Forget CE 4, it's PPC 2002 that should scare Palm!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2001 12:33:28 PM #

When there is PocketPC vs. Palm war, why people ALWAYS compares Video & Sound. They are not important! I don't buy PDA for listening to music or watching a videos. I buy it because I want to do something usefull with it ex. writing documents or keep up my meetings and todo list etc.

It doesn't matter is my PDA Palm or PocketPC it matters that there are right programs on my PDA.

Today my PDA is palm but I am seriously thinking to buy PocketPC because of the color screen! But I have to wait until PocketPC has all apps that I need and maybe then there are good colorscreen palm then...how knows


RE: Forget CE 4, it's PPC 2002 that should scare Palm!
mikecane @ 8/21/2001 1:01:06 PM #
I love these dweebs who can't figure out how to register and therefore all appear as the same dweeb -- "I.M. Anonymous" -- who dare to call other people trolls. There was NOTHING trollish in my PPC vs Palm comments, you freaking moron! Learn how to *comprehend* what you read!

As for music and video not being important -- that's not important to YOU. Don't try to squeeze everyone else in the world into your limited perspective.

I have never said that either Palm or PPC should vanquish the other. In fact, I root for Palm to survive, if only to keep the entire market out of the hands of that semi-autistic sociopath, Gates, and his band of merry thieves.

RE: Forget CE 4, it's PPC 2002 that should scare Palm!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2001 1:22:38 PM #
Wi-Fi, attachment, .mpeg. Now all together. This is what Palm neet to work on.

Putting a blind eyes on competitor doesn't make it disappear. The future is wireless internet on PDA for application as heavy as streaming video. PIM is an old trick, heck a $20 Royal can do that too. GO to Walmart and you would be surprise what this $20 bucks disposable Royal can do in basic PIM area.

RE: Forget CE 4, it's PPC 2002 that should scare Palm!
mikecane @ 8/21/2001 1:26:35 PM #
Have you spent $20 to try that Royal PDA? I've seen it at CompUSA. That clunky screen is scary. Makes me have flashbacks to the first LED digital clocks...

RE: Forget CE 4, it's PPC 2002 that should scare Palm!
AriB @ 8/21/2001 1:38:54 PM #
if Palm didn't think multimedia was important then why did they buy Be for? Why are they moving to ARM (and note that pocketpc isn't 'moving' towards anything so there will still be compatibility problems between different pocketpc's) Let's face it, Palm isn't going away anytime soon. Next gen palms will be cool and you'll still be able to use Wordsmith on them

RE: Forget CE 4, it's PPC 2002 that should scare Palm!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2001 1:39:00 PM #
It's $20 bucks. It syncs with Outlook and keeps calender and appointment function. The price ratio is lower by 15000% margin.

My point is, sooner or later somebody will come up with super cheap low end model in the range of sub $40 that will have function approaching basic palm model.

RE: Forget CE 4, it's PPC 2002 that should scare Palm!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2001 1:47:02 PM #
It seems all we think of multimedia is MP3 and a StarWars trailer. Well it ain't

it's more of Audio and Video API to provide capability anywhere from video conferences and business presentation all the way to rich gaming environment.

And no, "why would anybody want that" is not the answer.


RE: Forget CE 4, it's PPC 2002 that should scare Palm!
gynde @ 8/21/2001 1:49:48 PM #
>I love these dweebs who can't figure out how to >register and therefore all appear as the same dweeb --> "I.M. Anonymous" -- who dare to call other people >trolls. There was NOTHING trollish in my PPC vs Palm >comments, you freaking moron! Learn how to >*comprehend* what you read!

Happy now? I am registered. I didn't point my reply to your comment...and maybe my english is not so good that I understand every word. But enough this. Let's focus on main business.

>As for music and video not being important -- that's >not important to YOU. Don't try to squeeze everyone >else in the world into your limited perspective.

No, I don't try to squeeze anything, but video and music are IMHO most important things! First I'd like to see good displays and wireless capacibility. Palm had lot to do on this area and if they are focusing on music and video first they are IMHO going to wrong way


RE: Forget CE 4, it's PPC 2002 that should scare Palm!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2001 3:23:50 PM #
POCKET PC RULES, PALM DROOLS!

[Actually, I'm a die-hard Palm user who put this up to piss off all the hyper-sensitive idiots who continually whine about "trolls" everytime someone dares to mention a Pocket PC on these message boards, let alone admit that Pocket PC has some compelling features of it's own. I don't use a Pocket PC, but I can see why someone might, and I think it's a pathetic argument to complain about how "difficult" the UI is. It's not that hard; it's simply different--there are actually some very useful things about it. As I say, I prefer Palm, but I refuse to turn it into some stupid flame war. Perhaps some of you should make the same refusal.]

Say what!

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2001 12:12:06 PM #
PocketPC has over half of Europes PDA sales, and Mace doesn't see WinCE4/PocketPC as a threat?!?! How much marketshare does Microsoft have to grab before he does take them seriously, 90%?



RE: Say what!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2001 1:04:11 PM #
There's alot of things going on with consumer electronics in Europe that aren't like they are here. For example, here, almost 50% of cars sold are SUV's. There are no SUV's in all of Europe. Pretty nice, huh?

RE: Say what!
mikecane @ 8/21/2001 1:05:07 PM #
I think Mac will have to be behind Kessler on the line for Unemployment Compensation.

(OK, I admit I am being harsh and very unfair. I'm sure that Mace is a very smart guy and actually *knows* everything all of us are saying. For all we know, the poor guy could be having many sleepness nights because he *does* see the threat, where others above him at Palm do not. He is paid to express the Official Palm Point of View. But that does not mean *he* believes it or agrees with it.)

RE: Say what!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2001 1:25:30 PM #
Good point made by poster #2, but Microsoft still has about one third of the US PDA market now as well. Either way, this is bad news for Palm. And I would certainly expect Mace to say something more intelligent than "we don't see PPC as a threat". Good lord! Mace would have to be a complete moron not to take Microsoft seriously.

RE: Say what!
Spock9 @ 8/21/2001 3:12:56 PM #
Perhaps Mace doesn't see PPC as a threat because PPC doesn't do more than the Palm. The basic functions with regards to the enterprise, which consist of working with your e-mail or Word and Excel files not to mention PowerPoint documents, are all available on the Palm with better integration between the desktop and the Palm that with the desktop and the PPC. Take a look at what a company called DataViz did recently with their lates release...4.0 I believe. Microsoft still has problems interacting with their own document types. Maybe they should talk to DataViz about how it's done. Just my $.02

RE: Say what!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2001 3:54:59 PM #
yeah, than Microsoft going to tweak XP so it only work with PPC. now what?

RE: Say what!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2001 4:24:01 PM #
You forgot multitasking. It's important because wireless is an important part of enterprise. Not being able to do anything while Avantgo updates is a bummer.



RE: Say what!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2001 4:39:06 PM #
Europe did not have the Clie N710 or N610 for that matter during the quarter. Although the PocketPC caught PalmOS in Europe, they still fell short of passing them. Which begs the question, why does a powerhouse like the PocketPC still not outsell the simple Palm OS? Could it be that that people still use their desktops, more powerful desktops I might add, for movie watching and MP3 playing and a majority only use their PDA's for PIM. Palm still provides more options for PIM than PocketPC so I still think that even though the PocketPC does have extended multimedia features, you cannot watch movies or listen to music in a meeting. This will be a battle so don't count Palm out yet.

RE: Say what!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2001 5:13:38 PM #
Clie 710s and 610s actually reached Europe?

RE: Say what!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/22/2001 6:06:53 AM #
Unfortunately not for the moment : (

RE: Say what!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/22/2001 8:28:28 AM #
Go to www.simply.co.uk or www.jungle.com to have a look at the pda range in the UK. The iPAQs are there, sure, but what is there to fight them? The m500 is out (oooh, big deal), but we haven't seen any of the new colour [not color ;-) ] devices yet.

So we've been putting off buying a new PDA because of the new devices in the pipeline, leaving a hole in the market for PPC, just like in the states. The difference in Europe is that even when the new PalmOS devices (m505, Clie) start shipping in the USA, we don't get them here yet. So in fact the "hole in the market" is lengthened, leaving more space for PPC to squeeze into.

RE: Source?
Ed @ 8/22/2001 9:25:28 AM #
> PocketPC has over half of Europes PDA sales

Could you tell me where you got these figures? The latest I've seen have Palm outselling Compaq in Europe, if by a narrow margin:
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=2155

---
News Editor

RE: Say what!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/22/2001 6:34:43 PM #
PocketPC not a threat eh? That arrogant kind of thinking can get a company killed. Never underestimate your opponent, especially one with lots of money and determination to topple the arrogant bastard who thinks he's on top and humble him....

RE: Say what!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/3/2001 4:35:35 AM #
Pocket PC is a serious threat in Europe for Palm.
All the top pda's that everybody is screaming about simply aren't available here (the Netherlands). Same complaints coming from the other side of the North Sea.

Sony? We still only have the PEG S300.
Handspring? Never seen one in a shop. Available through mail order, though.
HandEra? Never seen one. Perhaps available through mail order, I don't know. Not on www.pdashop.nl

Basically, the only Palm powered machines that are widely available are Palm machines, and they are expensive. Make that very expensive.

This leaves the door wide open for pcc's. No wonder iPaqs are selling like crazy over here. The m505 hasn't changed that. To be honest: I have never seen one outside of a shop window.

Do you really think MSFT is telling Mace what they have

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2001 1:22:08 PM #
up their sleeve? Mace's arrogant, lax, non-paranoid attitude will kill Palm if they're not careful. "Only the Paranoid Survive". This is trench warfare and these Palm guys act like they are in combat with a little start-up operation.

RE: Do you really think MSFT is telling Mace what they have
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2001 1:40:06 PM #
nVidia was a little startup operation...

RE: Do you really think MSFT is telling Mace what they have
Smaug @ 8/22/2001 9:33:41 PM #
and so was palm

Talk about a revolution!

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2001 1:27:42 PM #
Incremental change?!?!? PPC 4 will allow you to close applications just by tapping a "close" button! That's not incremental, that's revolutionary for Microsoft PPCs!!!!

:P

RE: Talk about a revolution!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2001 1:36:04 PM #
actually they implemented that in WInCE 1.0 and 2.0 but took it off in 3.0. Microsoft eats up the simplicity jingle. But since so many hacks are made for "slocing" apps they decide to put i back in for 4.0

Red delicious/Washington Green
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2001 1:36:16 PM #
LOL!

The #1 thing I've always disliked about PPCs, (and I don't particularly dislike them) is that I have to work awfully hard to turn off the running applications.


I can't imagine a world without green or red apples. We want both, right? They both are goods eats, but they're a little different. One is sweeter, one is more tangy....
One plays good vids and music, and great MS Office,
one has 11,480 software titles currently available for download.

I'm not out to flame a soul, 'cause let's face it, what purpose does it serve? I think that we'll keep our Palms and our PPCs, our XBoxes and our Playstations, our Nissans and our Fords. I think there's room for everyone. Why would they vanish? I mean really? Think about it. Why not both.


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