Quickies: Handera, Christmas Giveaway, IIIc
A limited quantity of refurbished HandEra 330's are available directly from the manufacturer for $230. - Anon
Over sixty items are on VisorCentral's 12 Days of Christmas Giveaway prize list - including a Handspring Treo and several HandyGPS Pro modules, Stowaway keyboards, Data Quake modules, Thinmodems and much more. -Marcus Adolfsson
Gethightech has just released a Palm IIIc do-it-yourself screen repair kit. These replacement digitizers were custom made by Gethightech to save people money that are interested in repairing their own Palm IIIc units. They cost $65. -PR
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RE: Problem: still too expensive, still an old model
Looking at the past I bet that HandEra releases a new model(s) in the next few months (I hope, I'm due for a new one).
The 330 is a great handheld and is full of features that other companies have not yet matched.
I do like the Sony handhelds, but my budget does not keep up with them...buy one today and in 3-6 months it will be obsolete and unsupported.
RE: Problem: still too expensive, still an old model
RE: Problem: still too expensive, still an old model
I just purchased a HandEra 330... new... for far less than $300 (3rd party re-seller in NY... just do a Web search and you'll see it).
Although not color (and I do NOT need color, but would still be a nice extra), the screen is awesome. The SD/MMC *and* CF card slots are something that should be on all devices. They have current drivers for many of the CF cards... 10, 10/100 Ethernet, 802.11b, BlueTooth, serial, etc. The soft-graffiti area is another plus. QuickOffice runs very nicely in high-res mode.
RE: Problem: still too expensive, still an old model
RE: Problem: still too expensive, still an old model
RE: Problem: still too expensive, still an old model
I have a hard time believing many people will buy a unit that doesn't even have these necessities. I also think they made a bad bet with the effectively 240x240 resolution.. it's not too much better than 160x160, and probably has around the same dpi as the m1xx series!
With all the technical achievements they've made, it's amazing they don't release updated versions (which would be compatible with the 330). Sounds like a money issue to me..
RE: Problem: still too expensive, still an old model
Serial = good for me... I need to be able to access console ports on network gear in the field.
4 x AAA does = long life (although I agree that the $80 for a Lithium Ion battery and charger is too expensive).
I guess I don't understand why all the fuss about thinner = better. I prefer a unit that feels comfortable in my hand. The III series and HandEra are just the right size. If they are too thin, it can be uncomfortable to hold.
While some apps must run in the 240x240 mode, many are starting to appear that will read the type of unit and display their output accordingly. PC based apps have been doing this for some time now and I think the developers of Palm OS apps need to do the same. Other apps have already been written to the new factors (even 240x320) and look great. The DPI of the unit is only equal to the older units when running in a mode called "centered" or "upper left" (compatibility modes). When running hi-res, the output is either scaled (for non-hi-res apps) or actually runs in hi-res (those coded to do so).
Sony, IMHO, needs to develop a soft-graffiti area like the HandEra. This is one very cool feature.
I hope HandEra will come out with a color unit... with all the advanced features already included in the 330, and maybe some found in the Sony. However, color is not that important to me now.
Like everything... I think the best of all worlds (HandEra *and* Sony) will eventually cause a merger of technologies, which will only benefit everyone. Like MCA architecture that IBM introduced in their PS/2 line of computers... a good idea that may have died, but it did cause other manufacturers to rally and come up with a standard that we all "benefit" from today... PCI.
We just need to wait-n-see.
RE: Problem: still too expensive, still an old model
clie's market share is not high but it's much better
RE: Problem: still too expensive, still an old model
With planned quick obsolescence of recent models? No thanks. That's exactly why I bought a HandEra. They support their products.
> If they updated their 330 once 4.0 came out with USB and a real battery
> (I realize there's an expensive adapter), it would be a contender [ ... ]
If the 330 was USB, it would be useless to me. Not a one of the three machines I use daily support USB. What do I need it for anyhow? I can sync faster than USB using 802.11b or Bluetooth anyhow. The optional rechargable battery for the 330 provides more power and/or lasts longer than anything on other Palm OS devices. Sure I wish it was cheaper, but I'm happy that I have lots of power options and the rechargable is user-replaceable.
> I have a hard time believing many people will buy a unit that doesn't even have
> these necessities.
USB and built-in rechargable battery! Interesting necessities. In that case, my necessities would be built-in Bluetooth and ability to run for a month on 2 AAA batteries, but we'll have to wait a bit longer for that. My serious necessities are real expansion options and a large screen.
> I also think they made a bad bet with the effectively 240x240 resolution..
> it's not too much better than 160x160, and probably has around the same
> dpi as the m1xx series!
The difference between the 330's screen and the old 160x160 screens is like night and day. 240x320 or 480x640 screens are pretty much standard on high-end hardware like this.
If you want to make a comparison to the m1xxx series, DPI becomes meaningless when you squeeze a 320x320 screen into an area not much larger than the m10x series! Sorry, I know people keep making a fuss over Sony's screen, but I think it is a joke. The screen is too small, their software scheme resulted in too fine of lines and fonts, and they did a poor job, if any, of integrating the built-in apps to use it. Add to that the screen is somewhat dark behind a thick covering, and I just don't get it. Sony's eggs are all in one basket, a pretty sad hi-res color screen. As soon as some other company comes out with a hi-res color Palm OS device, the Sony's are going to be old, old news.
RE: Problem: still too expensive, still an old model
Umm. Didn't they just release 802.11b CF drivers? A year or two after PPCs? That's support, but not too much (I realize these aren't even available for Sony/Palm). Maybe you should have gone for Handspring..
Sony's support isn't as great as Handspring's, but they do keep making software (eg Clie Paint) and accessories (eg cases, GPS, camera, Bluetooth, wireless modem) for Clies... when was the last time HandEra "supported" its line with some accessories?
> If the 330 was USB, it would be useless to me. Not a one of the three machines I use daily support USB. What do I need it for anyhow? I can sync faster than USB using 802.11b or Bluetooth anyhow. The optional rechargable battery for the 330 provides more power and/or lasts longer than anything on other Palm OS devices. Sure I wish it was cheaper, but I'm happy that I have lots of power options and the rechargable is user-replaceable.
Well, 802.11b just became officially supported, and do they even support Bluetooth yet (which is much slower than USB btw)?
I see HandEra may be a necessity for you if your computers don't have USB, but that's like saying Wolfenstein 3D is the best game ever because I only have MS-DOS..
> USB and built-in rechargable battery! Interesting necessities. In that case, my necessities would be built-in Bluetooth and ability to run for a month on 2 AAA batteries, but we'll have to wait a bit longer for that. My serious necessities are real expansion options and a large screen.
Hmm, maybe you should go for a Handspring again. It uses 2 AAA batteries instead of 4, has rechargable options, has a larger screen than the HandEra, has many more expansion options... are you sure you don't have one of those instead? I realize they're easy to confuse because they both begin with "Hand".. Handsprings also have a nice serial accessories so you can plug them into 386's..
> The difference between the 330's screen and the old 160x160 screens is like night and day. 240x320 or 480x640 screens are pretty much standard on high-end hardware like this.
Hmm, you mean on PPC's? I think 160x160 screens are standards for Palms and PDAs, since about 60% of the PDAs sold have 160x160.. about 10% have 320x320.. about 0.1% have PalmOS and 240x320..
> If you want to make a comparison to the m1xxx series, DPI becomes meaningless when you squeeze a 320x320 screen into an area not much larger than the m10x series! Sorry, I know people keep making a fuss over Sony's screen, but I think it is a joke. The screen is too small, their software scheme resulted in too fine of lines and fonts, and they did a poor job, if any, of integrating the built-in apps to use it. Add to that the screen is somewhat dark behind a thick covering, and I just don't get it. Sony's eggs are all in one basket, a pretty sad hi-res color screen. As soon as some other company comes out with a hi-res color Palm OS device, the Sony's are going to be old, old news.
I just giggled... have you seen it? You might want to check PalmInfoCenter's reviews.. the Sony has the brightest screen on the market besides the Ipaq's (who has Sony make their screen, btw). I wish I had the specs but I don't.. the Sony's screen is about the same size as the Palm III/HandEra (sans the height), bigger than Palm's, smaller than Handspring's..
"If any".. maybe you should read up on hi-res assist, which makes pretty much any application (besides games/graphics) effectively hi-res.
Another problem with HandEra's line is that, if they don't update soon, they're going to be way behind the memory game. Sony and Handspring are making their new models 16mb (and Palm too, probably). While I'm not bashing them since 8mb was great for their time, it's becoming pretty cramped. HandEra needs a new model just like Palm does.
RE: Problem: still too expensive, still an old model
I do like supporting the 'little guy', especially in this case. They have been the leader in bringing new ideas and technologies into the PalmOS martket. They have been the first to use stuff like industry standard expansion (and multiple slots), better screen, an actual speaker, multiple battery options, etc.
Imagine where Palm would be if they hadn't been copying ideas from all their licensees.
RE: Problem: still too expensive, still an old model
> That's support, but not too much
You need a reality check. 802.11b CF cards have only been available for a few months.
> I just giggled... have you seen it? You might want to check PalmInfoCenter's
> reviews.. the Sony has the brightest screen on the market besides the Ipaq's
> (who has Sony make their screen, btw). I wish I had the specs but I don't..
> the Sony's screen is about the same size as the Palm III/HandEra (sans the
> height), bigger than Palm's, smaller than Handspring's.
Again you need a reality check. The Sony screens are visibly smaller than the Palm III. The 330's screen is bigger than any Palm OS device I am aware of.
Have I seen it? You are joking right? Yes, next to many different units. The Sony screen is small. It does have a thick annoying covering over it. It may very well be the brightest screen on a Palm OS device, with the backlight on all the way! I don't know if I would say that it is the brightest though, but I'll give that to you. Without the backlight all the way, it is like you're looking into a tunnel. Still, you imply the iPaq might be better, and I think it is. I will stand by what i said. Sony's eggs are all in one basket. Their only claim to fame is a mediocre hi-res color screen. There aren't any other even interesting features. It won't take much of a change in a new hi-res color screen from some other company for Sony's screen to be old, old news. I can't wait to hear the people falling off the bandwagon.
RE: Problem: still too expensive, still an old model
RE: Problem: still too expensive, still an old model
>Again you need a reality check. The Sony screens are visibly smaller than the Palm III. The 330's screen is bigger than any Palm OS device I am aware of.
Screen sizes are hard to find specs for on Palm devices so I can't confirm anything, but the Sony is 2.9"x4.7", compared to the Palm III's 3.2"x4.6"... they both appear to have very similar dead space on the sides of the screen, if not a little larger on the Palm III... the HandEra has a taller screen, but only negligible (if any) screen size difference not including the soft graffiti.
The Handspring Visor models have had the largest screen size since they came out, well before the HandEra (or TRGPro?).
> Have I seen it? You are joking right? Yes, next to many different units. The Sony screen is small. It does have a thick annoying covering over it.
It doesn't have a "thick annoying covering" unless you saw one with a screen protector. The screen has some space between the LCD and the touchscreen, to make room for the sidelight which makes it have a great screen viewable in any light.
> It may very well be the brightest screen on a Palm OS device, with the backlight on all the way! I don't know if I would say that it is the brightest though, but I'll give that to you. Without the backlight all the way, it is like you're looking into a tunnel.
Ummm... the default backlight is on all the way. Color devices all(?) have the backlight on as default, just like your TV. Imagine looking at your computer screen if it didn't emit any light.. It still has great battery life..
> Still, you imply the iPaq might be better, and I think it is. I will stand by what i said. Sony's eggs are all in one basket. Their only claim to fame is a mediocre hi-res color screen. There aren't any other even interesting features.
The Ipaq's is only better because it's a little brighter, which I totally applaud Compaq for. The Sony has the highest resolution of any PDA, and it's the only PDA you can view pictures or graphics on where they are not pixelized.
> It won't take much of a change in a new hi-res color screen from some other company for Sony's screen to be old, old news. I can't wait to hear the people falling off the bandwagon.
That would be great if another company made a screen that made Sony's models look like old news. I'm not some Sony fanatic. Like I said, the Ipaq has a brighter screen which is great. If HandEra made a new model with a 480x360 screen, USB, a better battery, maybe an MP3 player, 16mb+ of RAM (which I expect any future handheld should have) and a decent sized casing, I'd snatch it up in a second. As it is, the old model in the article isn't that appealing to me (and many others, inferring from sales) because it's not up-to-date. I'm personally looking forward to the color Treo and the T615.
Why HandEra will always be a minor player in PDAs
- FlashPro
- FlashPack
- TRGpro (CompactFlash support two years before others released cheap, removable media in PalmOS PDAs)
- AutoCF/AutoCard for running most programs seamlessly from CF +/- SD cards
- HandEra 330 (dual CF/SD support, SoftGraffiti, multiple power options, high resolution screen, voice recorder, jog dial)
Unfortunately, PDA users are not engineering geeks and most of us don't buy devices based on how many engineering advances/square inch in a given PDA. What most people want is small size (so we'll actually bother CARRYING the PDAs all the time) and color high resolution screens (the world is in color and color is helpful for displaying information effectively). Handera fails miserably in these regards. Furthermore, they have marketed their handhelds incompetently (they used to arrogantly claim they were not interested in marketing to consumers as they were targeting the "vertical market") and their design cycles are too slow to keep up with their competitors.
Had they released a small CF-enabled PDA with the CLIE N710C color screen - with or without the other HandEra 330 gimmicks - instead of the current HandEra 330, they might have had a chance. Instead, they have a large, ugly (my opinion) monochrome flagship model that is a very difficult sell when compared to the small Palm and Sony models. Yes, a few of the geeks who visit Palminfocenter may think the 330 is perfect, but most regular users would choose a color CLIE or Palm over a 330 any day.
I doubt HandEra has the ability to produce a new PDA that will address the 330's shortcomings. At least not before Sony has put out yet another model that has pushed the envelope even further beyond what we now have. Their 330 sales (less than 2000/month) are and will remain low because their market is - by definition - very small. Even power users that previously used the TRGpro (like physicians) for its then-unrivalled storage abilities are switching to the smaller, lighter color Sony and Palm models in droves.
TRG/HandEra is a good little company with solid, gifted, responsive engineers. But they don't have a clue how to go about giving people what they want and seem intent on destroying any success they could have built on. As with Palm and Handspring, HandEra's next model may decide the future of their company as a viable, independent entity.
- Armchair QB
RE: Problem: still too expensive, still an old model
What was being said before here was that Sony is heading to a dead end in the PDA market. Now is a short time, and the Sony devices look like the coolest for this brief moment of it. That brief moment is already ending. The T415 has gotten less than positive reviews, and I highly doubt Sony is going to have any better success than the m505 creating a thin color device with a decent screen using current technology. Other companies will release their new hi-res color screens. Sony's pixel-doubling scheme is a dead end, and in the long run would be a dead end for the Palm OS. MemoryStick is a dead end for PDAs as the sheer number of Palm and PocketPC devices push the market further into SD and CF. Go past that and Sony has nothing to offer. Their changing models every couple of months and dropping support for (practically new) "old" ones is already starting to wear thin.
I always enjoy my trips to Best Buy. The handheld department is always interesting. Everyone goes straight to the Palm devices. If they know anything at all, they might know who Handspring is. Today the salesman even had to explain who Handspring was to them. Forget about Sony, almost none ever get far enough to even look at them. Back in the digital cameras, the highlight was the new Kodak camera that use MMC/SD. A few months may seem like a long time in the PDA market, but sorry, Sony's days of bandwagoners claiming they're tops in the PDA market are short numbered.
RE: Problem: still too expensive, still an old model
I don't think I said that, but anyway, it's not greyscale that makes people buy units, it's price. Which is why the HandEra and other products like the Visor Edge sell so poorly. The Visor Deluxe sells so many copies still because it's $129 retail. The Clie 610 and HandEra 330 are in the same price range.
> That topic has been hashed over numerous times. An effort by HandEra trying to push into the thin PDA market completely dominated by Palm would be pointless anyhow, and a m50x form, good quality color hi-res screen PDA with CF is next to impossible currently anyhow. Your HandEra "gimmicks" are features that myself and many others use. Sony's color hi-res is a gimick that may wow your friends, but is mostly useless to me.
It's not like thinness and color and hi-res are "gimmicks" or "niches." That's like saying a fast computer processor or 17" monitor is a "gimmick." They're just nice to have. I understand it's great to have a voice recorder and a CF slot, and I wish my Sony did, but that doesn't change the truth of the subject line.
>What was being said before here was that Sony is heading to a dead end in the PDA market. Now is a short time, and the Sony devices look like the coolest for this brief moment of it.
Like I said, I'm not a Sony fanatic and I don't care if 3 years from now Sony doesn't sell one unit. I'm talking about the Handera 330 vs. the Clie 610. If Handera releases a new unit that isn't so dated, I would consider it.
>That brief moment is already ending. The T415 has gotten less than positive reviews, and I highly doubt Sony is going to have any better success than the m505 creating a thin color device with a decent screen using current technology. Other companies will release their new hi-res color screens. Sony's pixel-doubling scheme is a dead end, and in the long run would be a dead end for the Palm OS.
What are you talking about? First, the m505 is the best selling high-end palm device. Second, why do you say hi-res is a "dead end" but once other companies use it Sony won't matter?
>MemoryStick is a dead end for PDAs as the sheer number of Palm and PocketPC devices push the market further into SD and CF. Go past that and Sony has nothing to offer.
Memorystick provides memory and accessories. It's more popular and cheaper than SD at the moment. It's the third most popular flash memory format and will be second soon since SmartMedia is falling out of fashion quickly. I don't care if it's a deadend as I won't be using my Clie when SD cards are $5 for a gig and you can run a web site off a card. If you're a Sony fan it provides great integration with other Sony products.
>Their changing models every couple of months and dropping support for (practically new) "old" ones is already starting to wear thin.
How are they dropping support? They provided an upgrade for their first color unit, the 710, faster than Compaq did with their IPaqs. They released an MP3 player adapter for their S300 model which is about as old as the TRGpro. They have a wireless network available for their monochrome units. Just because they release new units doesn't mean they are "dropping support." I don't understand why more choices for models is a bad thing.
>I always enjoy my trips to Best Buy. The handheld department is always interesting. Everyone goes straight to the Palm devices. If they know anything at all, they might know who Handspring is. Today the salesman even had to explain who Handspring was to them. Forget about Sony, almost none ever get far enough to even look at them.
What's the point of that? I'm not arguing anything about Palm or Handspring. They have great brand recognition (as does Sony). I thought this thread was about Handeras.
> Back in the digital cameras, the highlight was the new Kodak camera that use MMC/SD. A few months may seem like a long time in the PDA market, but sorry, Sony's days of bandwagoners claiming they're tops in the PDA market are short numbered.
That's great. Unfortunately, if you stick that SD card in your Handera 330 it looks like garbage. If you looked at the Sony model next to it and stuck the memory stick in your Clie, it would look perfect, with no pixelization and perfect colors. And if I want to transfer it to my PC, it won't take a minute and a half through a serial port.
I think it's great that the Handera 330 has a CF slot (the SD slot will be pretty much worthless for the next year or two except for expensive memory). I wish a Clie did. The Clie is an up-to-date model with no real disadvantages at this point, while the HandEra has some nice features but still has room to come to make it as functional for normal Palm usage as an m125 or Visor Deluxe.
RE: Problem: still too expensive, still an old model
> disadvantages at this point, while the HandEra has
> some nice features but still has room to come to make
> it as functional for normal Palm usage as an m125 or
> Visor Deluxe.
What?! Apparently you missed everything that I said! The CLIE is quickly falling out of date. Its ONLY FEATURE is a hi-res color screen (that is also poorly designed, in particular from a software standpoint). Sony is doing a horrible job at providing support for these devices. The 710 is a few months old and the best Sony could do is come up with a unbelieveably convoluted way of uprgrading its OS. The S320 is about as old, and Sony has essentially dropped it.
On HandEra's side, there are many things you can do with the 330 (and even TRGpro) that you can't even do with any Sony device. The 330 is more like a PocketPC hardware-wise that everyone else will be waiting until Palm OS 5.0 for. I've been looking at some iPaqs for a development project and it is unbeliveable how nicely the 330 compares with them feature-wise (the CLIE certainly does not). To claim that an m125 or Visor Deluxe is more functional is a sign that trying to debate anything reasonable with you is pointless.
That "bright" screen on your CLIE is blinding you.
RE: Problem: still too expensive, still an old model
Handera 330 - big, monochrome, sells poorly
Clie 610 - small, high res color, sells well
Handera needs to buy a clue. Soon. A color Handera 550 with Clie S320 size, CF slot and color high res Clie screen would be a pretty good March 15, 2002 release for $399. Of course, that's only speculation...
****************************************
The trolls always have the last laugh...
$280 Clie 610C?
Refurb price drop?!
"Pricing
Refurbished HandEra 330 are available for a limited time at the special price of $229.00. Please refer to the product listing page to place your order."
RE: Refurb price drop?!
Handera Blues
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Problem: still too expensive, still an old model
I like handera because it has useful hardware instead of some fancy hardware (well, I think GPS module, and 16bit color, are not really useful), but this model is really an old one. I am wondering if they can make new model due to their poor marketing