Palm Sued Over HP Deal Stock Spat
Bloomberg is reporting on a new law suit filled this week again Palm Inc. The suit comes from investor named Steve Ubaney who claims the HP buyout deal cheats common stock holders while unfairly favoring holders of preferred shares such as the ones held by Elevation Partners.
Mr. Ubaney alleges that Palm directors breached their fiduciary duties and that common stockholders "will not receive their fair portion of the value of Palm's assets and will be prevented from benefitting from a value-maximizing transaction." He is seeking a court order to block the deal plus damages and is looking to represent other investors.
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I smell class action
This is a lame suit
RE: This is a lame suit
Have a nice day!
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->Pilot Pro->IIIe->IIIc->M500->M505->M515->T3->T5->Treo 650P->Treo 700P->Droid
What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
How many of the regulars have moved on to iPhone, Windows Mobile, Android or Blackberry over the past 2 years? What happens to this site when hkklife, mikecane and LiveFaith stop posting? Will all that remains be a barrage of vomitus from the poster who suggested (in 150 different off-topic posts) that Palm should start making gold cased, diamond-studded PDAs in an effort to survive? PIC deserves better than this. It is being abandoned, much as Palm's OS, products and users were abandoned by Palm's executives over the past decade.
Where are the daily stream of useful articles showing upcoming devices, info leaks, reviews of useful applications, discussion of "classic" devices, and posts offering probing analysis of webOS and Palm's products?
Does anyone feel it's worth the effort to keep this site alive with useful discussion? Or should Palminfocenter just continue to wither until the posts completely dry up and the remaining readers move on?
With stunning hardware like the iPhone 4G, HTC EVO, Motorola Droid 2, etc expected over the coming months, NOW is the time for PIC to make the decision whether or not to make the commitment to turn this site into a vibrant community that serves as a focal point for all things Palm, of if the site will surrender as one PalmOS/webOS user after another gets lured away to competing platforns by the promise of better hardware/software/reliability/support/user experience.
If Palminfocenter continues on the same path of benign neglect I expect it will be a dead site walking within a few months. All the regular posters will have left and - with HP-derived webOS-powered hardware not likely to show up until late in 2010 - webOS newbie reinforcements are unlikely to rush to PIC anytime soon.
hkklife, mikecane, abosco, LiveFaith and a dozen or so others should be commended for their tireless efforts here for SEVERAL years, as they have tried to keep PIC alive even though Palm was long since declared brain-dead. I, FJH have tried to revitalize PIC over the past month or two with some brilliant commentary, but have given up in disgust. Seeing great posts and articles by hkklife and even Tim Carroll eliciting almost no discussion makes me think the writing may be on the wall.
Perhaps Palminfocenter needs to pay a few writers to create more content here. A daily feature article by hkklife. A 5 part series of indepth, non-"Timmmay" written iPhone OS vs webOS vs. PalmOS comparison articles using the latest/best hardware running each OS and a dozen top third party apps. A daily trolling article by Timmmay Carroll. Pay Michael Cane $10/day (or 1 pizza) to post a daily rant, but stipulate that he gets NOTHING unless his posts improve beyond the embarassing TWITter level that his brain has been reduced to in the past year. Ask Palm to provide mikecane with a Verizon-activated Pre Plus fo a month and have him blog his "review" to an ongoing feature article. Bring back PIC legends like cervezas (David Beers), Surur, Ska, The Voice of Reason, cbowers, Larry Garfield, stonemirror, RhinoSteve, Altema, legodude522, twrock, I.M. Anonymous, Strider_mt2k, Slam, PenguinPowered (Marty Fouts), etc.
Palminfocenter STILL is considered an important measure of the pulse of the Palm community:
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/042910-palm-users-hp.html
Don't let this site die.
FJH
RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
It's hard to finish that piece because:
1. I am still using my Palm OS Centro & 755p for primary PIM duties, despite trying for months to massage the Droid into a full-fledged replacement.
2. Android, at least the barebones "Android Experience" found on the Droid & Nexus One, is absolutely pathetic when it comes to PIMs. I'd get more use out of a 11 year-old Palm V than an Android device when it comes to PIMs. HTC's sense UI addresses a sizable amount of Android's deficiencies but, alas, I cannot buy a new phone every 6 months at full retail price just to get better photo gallery & calendar apps.
3. I am still not certain that I am going to stick with Android for the long haul. It's almost as hard to keep an app-laden Android device running reliably as it is an app-laden Garnet device....quite possibly even harder due to the greater difficulty in troubleshooting and the large numbers of neophyte Android users that think it's the coolest thing since sliced bread. All of these neo-smartphone OS social networking hipsters consider anyone a stodgy old curmudgeon who cares about, say, recurring calendar events, sorting contacts by last name, first name or remembering someone's birthday in a non-Facebook reminder sort of way.
4. Several things are WORSE now on the Droid past 2.1 OS update than they were with 2.0.1. I read daily about numerous delays, aggravation, and uncertainty surrounding which Android devices will be updated to 2.1, which ones are seemingly abandoned and which ones have "issues". Google has their fingers in too many pies and are getting way too sloppy with Android for it to ever make any serious inroads against Apple. It's shaping up to be a WinMob experience all over again, just with more apps & more marketshare.
I think it's just safe for me to again reiterate that all current smartphone OSes are shit other than iPhone OS and I am not particularly fond of the limited choice in hardware, carriers & synchroniztion options there. I am basically to grit my teeth and wish really hope that HP whips WebOS in shape over the next 12 months.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro
RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
(Why do some people say you can kill two birds with one stone when it's hard enough killing one bird with two stones?)
RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
And it's not like you've seen content here as back in the old PDA days. Why no reviews of Palm Pre programs? Hell, I would have liked to have read that here. I'm not going to other sites, so I would have seen that only here.
RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
Had Palm brought out a Pre on Verizon prior to the Droid launch on Nov 6th 2009, I would've definitely jumped on it (and bitched incessantly about it on PIC!) but I had to get a phone immediately back then and thought Android 2.0 was the lesser of all the various non-Garnet platform evils.
So yeah, I'd cheerfully do an occasional review or even mini-review "quickies" if I had the means to do so. Again, this is where a WebOS-based non phone device would come in verrrry handy.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro
RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
Centro for phone + text messaging + PIM + email + essential/unique PalmOS + easy syncing + on-device backup
along with
iPhone 4G for modern hardware + bigger screen + decent browser + modern (actively supported) apps
As nice as the HTC EVO hardware looks, you're 100% right about how mangled the Android market is right now. Google screwed up by taking the lazy (Palm-style) way out and having vendors do the work coming up with the hardware + software customizations for Android. Google should have been strict on coming up with standards that would assure compatibility and easy updating of the OS. Apple has made iPhone idiotproof and this is yet another of iPhone's advantages. One OS. One app store. One place to load media. One form factor. It's the Ford Model T of smartphones and the strategy is working. I'm shocked by how many technophobes I see every day proudly carrying their iPhones, often filled with dozens of apps that they are actually USING. The iPhone is quickly moving from being a fashion accessory to becoming an indispensable tool, primarily because of how many useful apps are available for it and how easy they are for even newbies to find, load and use. Every airline seems to have an iPhone app. There are apps to locate restaurants. There are apps with maps of school campuses. And so on... iPhone has the momentum and the bandwagon appears to have a lot more room on it for frustrated dumbphone, Symbian, Blackberry, PalmOS, webOS and Windows Mobile users. If the iPhone 4G hardware is as solid as I expect it to be, I might just climb abord the bandwagon. If it arrives on Verizon that decision would be a lot easier. The HTC EVO on Sprint might not be worth the headaches of dealing with the 'Wild West' nature of Android. And I suspect Apple's hardware will be better than HTC's if your previous post about the HTC Incredible is accurate.
FJC
- Future iDrone?
P.S. What do I have to do to convince you to buy a Sprint Centro 2 from eBay for $100!!! Centro 1 (Original Sprint, Verizon, all GSM versions) feels like plasticky CRAP compared to the Sprint Centro 2. MUCH better keyboard, nice grippy rubberized coating,128 MB RAM, the final version of PalmOS 5 (Luscious Garnet). You kow you want it!
RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
Yes, Palm prematurely killed off PDAs in a cynical effort to force people to buy higher margin Treos if they wanted to updrade their old PalmOS PDAs. Only problem is that a Treo was NOT a replacement for a good PDA because of the difference in screen size, battery life and reliability afflicting Treos. Look back at the PDAs we had in 2005 and compare them to the best PDA we have now - the iPod Touch. It would have taken ZERO effort for Palm to have put out a high quality PalmOS PDA with better screen (like OLED) or with a cool form factor like the CLIE UX50 sometime in the past 5 years.
Throwing its customers under the bus and trying to force some of Palm's most faithful supporters into abandoning the very product that made Palm's name was unforgivable. And it backfired on Palm: just look at how many millions of iPod Touches have been sold over the past 2 years. 20 million? I have a new-in-box Palm TX and I can't believe what a piece of junk it is compared to the iPod Touch. I will probably save it as a collectors item or museum piece!
FJH
RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
And it's not like you've seen content here as back in the old PDA days. Why no reviews of Palm Pre programs? Hell, I would have liked to have read that here. I'm not going to other sites, so I would have seen that only here.
Was Gekko a not-so-secret Palm basher like the dearly departed, wee bit OBSESSED hengeem/SeldomVisitor? Seems like his dramatic jumping on and off the Pre bandwagon and non-stop, stridant negative posting over the Internet about his bad Pre experience rang hollow.
The glory days may be over, but the site should still be able to survive. How hard would it be for Ryan to get you a demo Pre Plus on Verizon for a month test? One phone call. This isn't rocket science. A feature article with daily updates (rantings and ravings) from you would attract a fair bit of interest. The problem is the people reading this site correctly realized early on that Pre and webOS were not ready for prime time when they came out last year, so very few posters have picked up webOS devices. The few early adopters were not impressed and discouraged everyone else from trying out Pre and Pixi. It is possible that a year later Pre, Pixi and webOS are worth considering. But I sure as hell am not going to pony up to be a beta tester after my experience with the early Pre last year.
Not having any REAL end user content about devices running the only OS that Palm now supports is a suicidal strategy for Palminfocenter. Anyone can get Palm press releases + news blurbs on RSS or TWITter - we do not need PIC for that. Palminfocenter used to be about B.S.-free CONTENT. Unless the site owner makes an effort to revamp things, the remaining readers will move on. Cliesource, 1src, Brighthand, PalmStation, etc are dead or dying. Palm's not-so-secret PR sites - the cult-like bible-thumping Treocentral and Precentral might soon be all we have left.
This is the way Palm ends
This is the way Palm ends
This is the way Palm ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
- TS FJH
RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
If Palm put out a Wi-Fi-only Pre Plus for $200 last year I would have bought it just to paly around with webOS. I like the Pre form factor (but hate the plasticky feel, poor construction and sharp lip around the keyboard) and would have carried it alongside of my Centro 2.
$200 Palm Pre Touch. What could have been. Instead, Palm gave Apple another year head start and another 20 million customer lead in marketshare to overcome. So smart. So Rubyesque. So Palm.
FJH
RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
Piss on that. I'm not about to do all that work, period.
RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
At this point I am trying to decide if I want a Pre Plus from ATT (assuming I can get the same deal as VZN to keep me from jumping ship) or wait even longer for the PalmHP phone to come out (probably in August on Sprint.) Actually, I suspect much later than August as I expect HP to really massage the hardware and build quality before Palm sends anything else out.
"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill
RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
Rcartwright, whatever Palm has in the can for the next device or two will almost certainly have been developed (C40 etc) under the auspices of the "old" Palm. These things just don't leap off the drawing board and on to store shelves in a few months' time. With carrier approvals & certifications, It's something like 18 months from greenlighting a project to it arriving at retail.
My advice? Get a Pre Plus on a 1yr contract. By all accounts, the AT&T version of the Pre Plus seems to be the best of the lot. Best build quality, best slider response, and possibly even some slightly optimized hardware...definitely a newer and speedier build of the OS.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro
RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
-Bosco
m105 -> NX70v -> NX80v -> iPhone -> iPhone 3G
RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
FJH:
Seeing great posts and articles by hkklife and even Tim Carroll eliciting almost no discussion makes me think the writing may be on the wall.
"Even" Tim Carroll? Even? :P
I put in a lot of effort writing and investigating stuff for PIC before I ran off to the Army. I hope to come back and put in a lot more, but right now my living arrangements are not ideal for blogging.
I love this site. It's why I've continued to come back here, despite the dwindling away of readership and commentary that you touched on in your post. If it does need "saving", it's nothing that a few dedicated new bloggers couldn't fix. If there's one thing I discovered while writing here, it's that investigative blogging is easy. Developers and companies are often very happy to share information so long as you ask nicely. PIC could very easily be the source for Palm news, but we need some help!
RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
Tim Carroll wrote:FJH:
Seeing great posts and articles by hkklife and even Tim Carroll eliciting almost no discussion makes me think the writing may be on the wall."Even" Tim Carroll? Even? :P
I put in a lot of effort writing and investigating stuff for PIC before I ran off to the Army. I hope to come back and put in a lot more, but right now my living arrangements are not ideal for blogging.
Actually, I took the "even" to mean, "even Tim Carroll's great articles couldn't elicit discussion" rather than "even Tim Carroll occasionally wrote a good article."
Honestly, I've always thought PIC has had some quite good writing and critical responses to Palm phones, by Tim and otherwise. Tim's blind hatred of all things Apple is just a kind of amusing irritation, like a wife/girlfriend's Hello Kitty obsession.
RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
Again. And again.
You act like I've never even touched the damned thing.
BTW, have *you* gotten an iPad?
RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
I'll buy another one for my own use in a few months.
RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
Perhaps you're trying too hard. Aiming to elicit a reaction rather than focusing on content. Leave the bombast and controversy to more clever wordsmiths who know how to properly use the device. Elevate your game.
Actually, I took the "even" to mean, "even Tim Carroll's great articles couldn't elicit discussion" rather than "even Tim Carroll occasionally wrote a good article."
You were wrong.
Honestly, I've always thought PIC has had some quite good writing and critical responses to Palm phones, by Tim and otherwise. Tim's blind hatred of all things Apple is just a kind of amusing irritation, like a wife/girlfriend's Hello Kitty obsession.
Timmmay's Apple bashing is for effect only. He knows that Apple has the best smartphone package available right now and that bashing iPhone and Apple is an easy way to provoke a reaction from Apple fanbois. He's merely picking the (rotting) low-lying fruit.
FJH
RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
iPad is basically an oversized iPod Touch.
iPad is intentionally hobbled by Steve Jobs to keep the Apple fanbois on the reservation.
iPad is a cynical, sneering mockery of Apple cultists.
iPad is the only tablet currently shipping that matters.
iPad is a brilliant melange of compromises.
iPad has the potential to revolutionize casual computing and entertainment.
iPad is not for me but it is perfect for tens of millions of others that aren't "me".
iPad deserves credit for being on sale TODAY while everyone else is only offering VAPORWARE.
iPad success could make iPhoneOS second only to Windows in terms of imporance to consumers.
iPad deserves every success it achieves.
Foleo should have become in 2007 what iPad will become in 2010.
I suspect most people who try iPad will find that they like it.
I suspect most people who buy iPad will find that they use it a lot more than they thought they would.
HP will introduce a webOS-powered "PalmPad" by December 2010.
iPad already has the momentum and critical mass of developers + users needed to assure its domimance for at least the next 2 years.
FJH
RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
Perhaps you're trying too hard. Aiming to elicit a reaction rather than focusing on content.
Nope. I started writing for PIC in the first place 'cause I figured the best way to get Palm news would be to go digging it up myself - hence the chasing of developers for interviews, hanging out with the WebOS Internals folks on IRC, harassing Palm's PR, etc.
Timmmay's Apple bashing is for effect only. He knows that Apple has the best smartphone package available right now and that bashing iPhone and Apple is an easy way to provoke a reaction from Apple fanbois.
The latter is true - and usually quite amusing - but I also genuinely dislike Apple's policies and attitude as a company, and I find the iPhone obscenely overrated. iTunes is perhaps the worst software ever designed.
RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
How so? While I'll be the first to admit I HATED the software keyboard I tried in the original iPhone, I still give Apple credit for being the first company to figure out how to deliver a complete smartphone EXPERIENCE to the masses. You lose credibility by failing to give Apple due credit for its accomplishments.
I've been using PalmOS PDAs since you were in diapers and even I am now considering getting an iPhone. If Apple has a package good enough to tempt a hardcore PalmOS user like me it just goes to show how difficult a position Palm is in now trying to compete with the iPhone juggernaut.
Most people don't give a shite about philosophical issues regarding platform "openness", etc. They just want a stylish, well-featured phone with easy access to a ton of apps and multimedia. The simplicity and size of the App Store is well worth trading away "openness" in order to obtain.
FJH
FJH
RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
That's because you're incapable of understanding and appreciating Apple's accomplishments in this space.
From your original "comparison" of the treo to the iPhone - where the treo came out ahead, to your hatchet piece on why apple should open iTunes, your articles are nothing but Palm fanboy writings disguising as journalism - perhaps you should go work at gizmodo.
iTunes is perhaps the worst software ever designed.
I think webos with it's code bloat wins that award...
Regardless, If that's the case, why did you push for Apple to open iTunes up?
I think your bashing of the iPhone and iTunes is an attempt to go against something popular in a failed effort to appear relevant.
BTW, it's great to finally see Flash on the Pre - lol!
RE: The PERFECT combination for Mike Cane types:
Fake Jeff Hawkins wrote:
1) Unlocked GSM Centro.+
2) iPad
Why? I'd much rather use My Tether on my Pre to feed data to an iPad through wifi - which is what I do now with my netbook. Of course you did say "Mike Cane types" which is something of an unreachable target. Mikey hates everything. Except for maybe Life Cereal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYEXzx-TINc
Palm Apologist
Shouting down the PIC Faithful Since 2009
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/
RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
Keep your craptastic plastic Pre.
Advantages of Centro over Pre:
1) email - Chatteremail and even VersaMail make Pre's email solution look bad.
2) PIM - Ability to run and sync bulletproof native Palm PIM and brilliant PIM replacement apps like DateBk6.
3) Runs PalmOS 5 apps without crashing 10 times per day like the Garnet emulator Pre users are forced to buy.
4) Exposed keyboard.
5) Larger app library.
6) Security of personal data.
7) No dependence on "the cloud".
8) On-device backup and recovery.
9) Easy memory expansion with SD cards.
10) SPEED.
11) More intuitive user interface.
12 Easy app development, mature development platform.
13) Standard desktop sync.
webOS currently is answering a question that no PalmOS users were asking. Palm needs to bring out better HARDWARE and fix the multiple glaring problems with webOS pronto, or else iPhone and Android are going to kill webOS before it even has a chance to catch on.
FJH
RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
Fake Jeff Hawkins wrote:
Why? I'd much rather use My Tether on my Pre to feed data to an iPad through wifi - which is what I do now with my netbook.Keep your craptastic plastic Pre.
Thank you, I will.
Advantages of Centro over Pre:1) email - Chatteremail and even VersaMail make Pre's email solution look bad.
I never tried Chattermail on PalmOS but VersaMail crashed a lot on my old Treos, my LifeDrive, and TX. My Pre's email app has never crashed on me and with the right patches, it's a good, simple email app which is all I need.
2) PIM - Ability to run and sync bulletproof native Palm PIM and brilliant PIM replacement apps like DateBk6.
I've actually come to like the Calendar app on my Pre precisely because it can sync to multiple calendars and I can run DateBk under Classic.
3) Runs PalmOS 5 apps without crashing 10 times per day like the Garnet emulator Pre users are forced to buy.
Actually, Classic has been pretty stable since webOS 1.4 came out so I'm pretty happy with it these days.
4) Exposed keyboard.
Meh, the Centro's keyboard is nice but it's not like it's exceptionally good. I'm happy with my Pre's slider.
5) Larger app library.
Until you factor in Classic. And I can install apps directly on my Pre without futzing
6) Security of personal data.
If I want to secure my data on my Pre I can do so with Keyring. In any case, there will be no real data security on mobile devices until something like TrueCrypt arrives on them.
7) No dependence on "the cloud".
Right, because it's bad when my phone backs itself up every day. It's bad when my phone can import my contacts from GMail and my appointments from Google Calendar.
8) On-device backup and recovery.
9) Easy memory expansion with SD cards.
I do miss SD cards but not as much as I thought I would.
10) SPEED.
My old Treos had lag. The Centro had less lag. My old LifeDrive had *a lot* of lag. And my Palm TX very little lag. I don't really see much lag on my Pre, especially now that I'm overclocking it to 800 MHz with the Uber Kernel.
11) More intuitive user interface.
No, not to me.I loved PalmOS and I still use it when I POS apps under Classic but webOS is every bit as simple and intuitive as POS.
12 Easy app development, mature development platform.
I'll give you the latter but not the former. Developing webOS apps is dead simple.
13) Standard desktop sync.
Classic has had Hotsync since webOS 1.3.5. It was pretty buggy at first but then again PalmOS Hotsync has always had its problems. Things are working pretty well for me as far as "standard" sync goes. In any case, cloud-based syncing is just the next evolution of the same basic syncing that Palm pioneered over a decade ago. It's time to cut the cord.
14) You forgot about one critical advantage: Documents to Go which does run under Classic but it's just not the same as running it natively.
webOS currently is answering a question that no PalmOS users were asking. Palm needs to bring out better HARDWARE and fix the multiple glaring problems with webOS pronto, or else iPhone and Android are going to kill webOS before it even has a chance to catch on.
webOS has answered most of *this* PalmOS user's questions. I struggled for eight months to replace my Treo 680 with a T-Mobile G1 and had carry a Palm TX along with it because Android's PIMs simply didn't cut it. I won't claim that webOS is perfect or even complete but it's growing by leaps and bounds in terms of capabilities. Yes, I'd like better hardware too and I'm pretty confident that we will get it soon.In the mean time.
Advantages of the Pre over the Centro:
1. A real web browser. No more futzing with crappy WAP pages.
2. Wifi.
3. Tethering. I'm writing this sitting on a bus with my Pre feeding data to my netbook via wifi.
4. 3D gaming. It's a battery killer but it's fun.
5. Stability and robustness. Classic used to be the only app that could crash my Pre and even it has been behaving itself lately. I've never encountered a PalmOS PDA or smartphone which couldn't be crashed frequently and badly. I've even encountered stock factory-installed apps which could cause a hard reset on PalmOS devices (the Calculator on my old Treo 180g did this). I haven't encountered anything similar on my Pre.
6. Customization. Admittedly PalmOS is very customizable but webOS patches are just so amazing. I have been able to add a Today menu to my Pre's topbar which shows my Calendar entries. I've made the webOS launcher work like the original PalmOS launcher with named categories and a drop down list to navigate them. I can overclock my Pre's processor. I can put weather apps into my Dashboard or in an icon in my Quicklaunch bar. I have menu entry that allows me to use my Pre's LED as flashlight - not a crappy flashlight app that turns the screen white but a real flashlight. Add custom themes and wallpapers and
7. GPS and Universal Search. I've said it before and I'll say it a again but nothing beats being able to type out a search term like, say "refrigeration" and have Google Maps spit out a map and a nicely formatted list of local refrigeration contractors in my area complete with contact info. Searching for info has never been simpler.
8. Notifications. webOS Dashboard > a small flashing dot in the corner or the screen.
9. Homebrew. webOS has a growing and enthusiastic developer community while development for PalmOS is slowly dying.
10. The Touchstone Charger. No more messing with connectors, I just lay my phone on its charger and it charges.
11. Large hi-rez screen. After all the bitching and whining about the Treo and Centro's "small square screen," you'd think more people would appreciate the Pre nice, big screen.
12. Support. The Centro had what, three updates in its three year history? The Pre has had more than ten updates in less than one year.
Palm Apologist
Shouting down the PIC Faithful Since 2009
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/
RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
DarthRepublican wrote:
Fake Jeff Hawkins wrote:
5) Larger app library.Until you factor in Classic. And I can install apps directly on my Pre without futzing
I meant to say that can install apps directly over the air on my Pre much more easily than I ever could under PalmOS and without downloading them on my PC first and futzing with Hotsync.
Palm Apologist
Shouting down the PIC Faithful Since 2009
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/
RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
Good for you.
Advantages of Centro over Pre:
1) email - Chatteremail and even VersaMail make Pre's email solution look bad.
I never tried Chattermail on PalmOS but VersaMail crashed a lot on my old Treos, my LifeDrive, and TX. My Pre's email app has never crashed on me and with the right patches, it's a good, simple email app which is all I need.
I've used Chatteremail since it was released and it DESTROYS the Pre email app. I don't think Chatteremail has even crashed on me in the past 4 years. Palm butchered Multimail/VersaMail and failed to do much to improve what used to be the best PalmOS email app (10 years ago). Still, the version of VersaMail that shipped with Centros is better than the one that shipped with old PalmOS PDAs and early Treos.
2) PIM - Ability to run and sync bulletproof native Palm PIM and brilliant PIM replacement apps like DateBk6.
I've actually come to like the Calendar app on my Pre precisely because it can sync to multiple calendars and I can run DateBk under Classic.
You've "come to like" it? Wow - you sound like a battered spouse intent on making excuses for their abuser. DateBk6 exposes the Pre calendar app to be a joke.
3) Runs PalmOS 5 apps without crashing 10 times per day like the Garnet emulator Pre users are forced to buy.
Actually, Classic has been pretty stable since webOS 1.4 came out so I'm pretty happy with it these days.
Every time Classic or webOS are updated we hear from webOS apologists like you who claim that "this time" the Classic emulator is stable. How sad. Classic for webOS is a buggy work in progress. For Palm to have failed to include a rock solid PalmOS emulator in webOS shows how little they think of those of us who have supported the company over the past 14 years. To have the nerve to expect webOS users to PAY for Classic is shockingly arrogant - even for Palm.
4) Exposed keyboard.
Meh, the Centro's keyboard is nice but it's not like it's exceptionally good. I'm happy with my Pre's slider.
I never claimed the Centro keyboard was "exceptionally good". (Though the Sprint Centro 2 revised keyboard is the best I've used on a Palm-branded device. It IS better than the horrible recessed Pre keyboard with its sharp surrounding edges.
5) Larger app library.
Until you factor in Classic. And I can install apps directly on my Pre without futzing
Classic is unstable and needs to be purchased at extra expense. If you glue an iPhone to the back of your Pre does that make your Pre a "better" phone?
6) Security of personal data.
If I want to secure my data on my Pre I can do so with Keyring. In any case, there will be no real data security on mobile devices until something like TrueCrypt arrives on them.
All your data on Palm's servers and in Google's clutches are vulnerable. (By the way, anyone dumb enough to trust "nice" Google should look deeper into the company. Here's a start:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/14/google-private-data-colle_n_577015.html )
Contrast the vulnerable Pre with my secure Centro that is protected with TealLock and other apps. Secure phone locking, card encryption, remote wiping, etc, etc.
7) No dependence on "the cloud".
Right, because it's bad when my phone backs itself up every day. It's bad when my phone can import my contacts from GMail and my appointments from Google Calendar.
Is your phone REALLY backed up to "the cloud"? Completely? How many Pre users have tried to restore their phones and gotten burned by Palm? My Centro is backed up COMPLETELY to SD card with 3 different apps. I've never lost data due to a bad restore. What happens if your data connection fails and you need to restore your Pre? You're screwed, that's what. If disaster strikes and my Centro becomes inoperable, I can pop my SD card out of my Centro, put it into a brand new (backup) Centro and have all of my old data on the new device in less than 5 minutes. The Old Palm recognized that on-device backup was a smart idea. The New Palm is more concerned about appeasing carriers (who want all of their customers to upgrade to lucrative data plans) and pushing "the cloud", even though Palm has yet to create apps that can actually show how cloud computing has any significant use. If you trust all of your data to Google and "the cloud" you're in for a RUDE awakening.
8) On-device backup and recovery.
9) Easy memory expansion with SD cards.
I do miss SD cards but not as much as I thought I would.
You sound like a cult member that is in serious need of deprogramming.
10) SPEED.
My old Treos had lag. The Centro had less lag. My old LifeDrive had *a lot* of lag. And my Palm TX very little lag. I don't really see much lag on my Pre, especially now that I'm overclocking it to 800 MHz with the Uber Kernel.
My Pilot Professional has no lag. My Palm IIIx has no lag. My Centro has minimal lag. The Pre has massive lag. This is a phone - lag is NOT acceptable. You had to overclock your Pre? Hilarious. Even you got so fed up with the Pre's crappy performance that you were forced to overclock it? Yet you claim the Pre doesn't have much lag? Get real.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/26/pre-gets-a-nasty-800mhz-overclock-patch-for-all-to-enjoy-at-one/
11) More intuitive user interface.
No, not to me.I loved PalmOS and I still use it when I POS apps under Classic but webOS is every bit as simple and intuitive as POS.
Face it: all that swiping and card shuffling is nothing more than a GIMMICK. Even the basic PalmOS launcher is more efficient than the webOS swipey-wipey nonsense. Add Launcher X and McPhling to a Treo or Centro and behold the power of FUNCTION over GIMMICKS.
12 Easy app development, mature development platform.
I'll give you the latter but not the former. Developing webOS apps is dead simple.
Developing PalmOS apps is even simpler.
13) Standard desktop sync.
Classic has had Hotsync since webOS 1.3.5. It was pretty buggy at first but then again PalmOS Hotsync has always had its problems. Things are working pretty well for me as far as "standard" sync goes. In any case, cloud-based syncing is just the next evolution of the same basic syncing that Palm pioneered over a decade ago. It's time to cut the cord.
webOS sync remains not yet ready for prime time. Yet another example of how webOS is still in BETA stage.
14) You forgot about one critical advantage: Documents to Go which does run under Classic but it's just not the same as running it natively.
There are a lot of other webOS deficiencies that I was kind enough to not mention above. Palm's failure to get DataViz on board with Documents To Go was a shocker. Palm's beancounters probably felt the company didn't have the money to pay Dataviz, so Dataviz played hardball with Palm and embarassed the company. Expect HP to IMMEDIATELY pay Dataviz whatever they demand for a licensed webOS version of Documents To Go to be included in the ROM of every webOS device shipping later this year.
webOS currently is answering a question that no PalmOS users were asking. Palm needs to bring out better HARDWARE and fix the multiple glaring problems with webOS pronto, or else iPhone and Android are going to kill webOS before it even has a chance to catch on.
webOS has answered most of *this* PalmOS user's questions. I struggled for eight months to replace my Treo 680 with a T-Mobile G1 and had carry a Palm TX along with it because Android's PIMs simply didn't cut it. I won't claim that webOS is perfect or even complete but it's growing by leaps and bounds in terms of capabilities. Yes, I'd like better hardware too and I'm pretty confident that we will get it soon.
In the mean time.
Advantages of the Pre over the Centro:
1. A real web browser. No more futzing with crappy WAP pages.
2. Wifi.
3. Tethering. I'm writing this sitting on a bus with my Pre feeding data to my netbook via wifi.
4. 3D gaming. It's a battery killer but it's fun.
5. Stability and robustness. Classic used to be the only app that could crash my Pre and even it has been behaving itself lately. I've never encountered a PalmOS PDA or smartphone which couldn't be crashed frequently and badly. I've even encountered stock factory-installed apps which could cause a hard reset on PalmOS devices (the Calculator on my old Treo 180g did this). I haven't encountered anything similar on my Pre.
6. Customization. Admittedly PalmOS is very customizable but webOS patches are just so amazing. I have been able to add a Today menu to my Pre's topbar which shows my Calendar entries. I've made the webOS launcher work like the original PalmOS launcher with named categories and a drop down list to navigate them. I can overclock my Pre's processor. I can put weather apps into my Dashboard or in an icon in my Quicklaunch bar. I have menu entry that allows me to use my Pre's LED as flashlight - not a crappy flashlight app that turns the screen white but a real flashlight. Add custom themes and wallpapers and
7. GPS and Universal Search. I've said it before and I'll say it a again but nothing beats being able to type out a search term like, say "refrigeration" and have Google Maps spit out a map and a nicely formatted list of local refrigeration contractors in my area complete with contact info. Searching for info has never been simpler.
8. Notifications. webOS Dashboard > a small flashing dot in the corner or the screen.
9. Homebrew. webOS has a growing and enthusiastic developer community while development for PalmOS is slowly dying.
10. The Touchstone Charger. No more messing with connectors, I just lay my phone on its charger and it charges.
11. Large hi-rez screen. After all the bitching and whining about the Treo and Centro's "small square screen," you'd think more people would appreciate the Pre nice, big screen.
12. Support. The Centro had what, three updates in its three year history? The Pre has had more than ten updates in less than one year.
Can your Pre do the following:
1) Search the phone completely for a name or word?
2) Record voice memos natively?
3) Voice dial directly or over a Bluetooth headset?
4) Change/program voicemail passwords?
5) Back up the entire phone memory to media and recover data from an on-device backup?
As far as to the "Advantages of the Pre over the Centro" you listed:
1) The Centro browser may not be very modern, but it's not WAP. Do you know ANYTHING about PalmOS devices?
2) Yes, Wi-Fi is a genuine advantage.
3) Centro can tether with PDANet or USB Modem.
4) How many 3D games are available for webOS? 10? Big deal. On top of that, lack of proper gaming buttons is a deal killer in my opinion.
5) My Sprint Centro 2 is stable, fast and runs all my PalmOS apps without crashing. webOS is a slow beta OS and Classic is as flaky as hell - despite the fact that after every update Pre fanboys claim that it's finally been "fixed'. Here's a tip: The real "fix" is to either buy a Centro or for Palm to build its OWN PalmOS emulator natively into webOS (like they should have done from Day 1).
6) You think PalmOS isn't more (and more easily) customizable than webOS? How many launchers, skinners, hacks, etc. are available for PalmOS? Do a search and edumacate yourself before you spout more nonsense here.
7) GPS is nice, but my Centro has the Garmin XT GPS map app. I just have to carry a matchbook-sized GPS receiver, but that's a simple compromise. The webOS "Universal Search" wasn't nearly as useful as the ancient PalmOS "Find" function last time I checked. And Google and tryda already give me all the mobile search data *I* need/want in a phone.
8) Centro + Butler + DateBk 6 = all the "notifications" I need/want.
9) webOS community is a feeble community that would have died out over the next year when Palm declared bankruptcy had the company not been sold off. The only reason that PalmOS development is dying is because of a decade of severe, perpetual, complete, arrogant neglect by Palm, followed by one year of Palm aggressively trying to KILL PalmOS off prematurely in an effort to force people to buy webOS devices. The fact that TealPoint was able to throw together TealOS in a few weeks and so thoroughly mimic the webOS UI is a sad indictment of Palm. Had Palm bothered to FIX the missing features and bugs in PalmOS 5, freshen the user interface by (optionally) changing the native launcher to TealOS or Launcher X YEARS ago, and put out some better hardware (e.g. an iPhone form factor) running PalmOS, PalmOS would still be thriving in 2010 and there would be ZERO need for the VAST majority of customers to switch to a webOS device. And don't get me started on how Palm has treated developers over the years. The company truly doesn't deserve to have ANY developers supporting it after all the crap Palm has pulled over the years with us.
10) The Touchstone charger is a cheaply-made, overpriced SCAM. A triumph of hype and form over function. My 5 year old Treo desktop chargers that charged both the Treo and an extra battery at the same time (while taking up minimal desk space) were useful accessories. The Touchstone, on the other hand is a cynical absolute joke of Steve Jobsian-black turtlenecked-pretentious-artsy epic proportions. I definitely wouldn't list the Touchstone an "advantage" in the Pre's favor:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/07/palm-pre-and-touchstone-get-torn-down-gently-beautifully/
11) while the Pre's screen is bigger and nicer than the Centro, its 3.1 inch 480 x 320 screen certainly doesn't qualify as "large" or "hi-rez". Not with 4.3 inch 800 x 480 screens popping up on the HTC HD2 and EVO and 4 inch screens becoming commonplace. In fact, 3.5 inch screens are starting to look downright puny these days. I'm in the minority, though in that I prefer smaller phones. I actually prefer the Centro form factor (despite the Small Square Screen) over the Pre's.
12) Do you not realize that only reason Palm is releasing frequent updates to webOS is because the OS was originally released in beta form? Are you THAT naive? Even the current version of webOS (1.4) would more accurately be labelled as webOS 0.95b.
Palm Apologist
Shouting down the PIC Faithful Since 2009
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/
You have been epic schooled.
Bring me my cognac.
FJH
- Schooling fools since... forever.
RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
Fake Jeff Hawkins wrote:
Thank you, I will.Good for you.
Advantages of Centro over Pre:2) PIM - Ability to run and sync bulletproof native Palm PIM and brilliant PIM replacement apps like DateBk6.
I've actually come to like the Calendar app on my Pre precisely because it can sync to multiple calendars and I can run DateBk under Classic.You've "come to like" it? Wow - you sound like a battered spouse intent on making excuses for their abuser. DateBk6 exposes the Pre calendar app to be a joke.
So you're entire argument here is a variation of the "Are you still beating your wife?" argument? I have Datebk5 and can use it side by side with the default Calendar on the Pre. So unless Datebk made a quantum leap in functionality between versions 5 and 6, I don't see a gigantic advantage in in Datebk over the Pre Calendar app. That's not to say that Datebk doesn't have its advantages, that's why I still run it under Classic.
3) Runs PalmOS 5 apps without crashing 10 times per day like the Garnet emulator Pre users are forced to buy.
Actually, Classic has been pretty stable since webOS 1.4 came out so I'm pretty happy with it these days.Every time Classic or webOS are updated we hear from webOS apologists like you who claim that "this time" the Classic emulator is stable. How sad. Classic for webOS is a buggy work in progress. For Palm to have failed to include a rock solid PalmOS emulator in webOS shows how little they think of those of us who have supported the company over the past 14 years. To have the nerve to expect webOS users to PAY for Classic is shockingly arrogant - even for Palm.
Technically it's MotionApps which expects us to pay for Classic - and yes it is charging way too much. Having said that, MotionApps has worked hard to improve it and answer questions from users and improve Classic. And it shows, Classic used to be the only webOS app that could crash my entire phone. And since version 1.4 of webOS it no longer does that; it is still too slow to start up but we'll see if that improves in the future. Ultimately, all software is buggy and a work in progress, it's just a question of degrees and Classic has reached a point where I still want it to improve but am otherwise happy with it.
Incidentally, I was recently asked to be a guest blogger for MotionApps' blog. I was not compensated in any way and it was little more than a copy and paste of post I had previously made on Precentral. Feel free to make of this what you will.
8) On-device backup and recovery.
9) Easy memory expansion with SD cards.
I do miss SD cards but not as much as I thought I would.You sound like a cult member that is in serious need of deprogramming.
How nice that you've appointed yourself as my deprogrammer....
10) SPEED.
My old Treos had lag. The Centro had less lag. My old LifeDrive had *a lot* of lag. And my Palm TX very little lag. I don't really see much lag on my Pre, especially now that I'm overclocking it to 800 MHz with the Uber Kernel.My Pilot Professional has no lag. My Palm IIIx has no lag. My Centro has minimal lag. The Pre has massive lag. This is a phone - lag is NOT acceptable. You had to overclock your Pre? Hilarious. Even you got so fed up with the Pre's crappy performance that you were forced to overclock it? Yet you claim the Pre doesn't have much lag? Get real.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/26/pre-gets-a-nasty-800mhz-overclock-patch-for-all-to-enjoy-at-one/
Keep on telling me how slow my phone is; I'm sure I'll eventually believe it. (This must be why I got fed up with my T-Mobile G1's lag, because you told me it was slow.) Incidentally, my claim was, "I don't really see much lag on my Pre, especially now that I'm overclocking it to 800 MHz with the Uber Kernel." I happen to think that this is a fairly reasonable claim.
11) More intuitive user interface.
No, not to me.I loved PalmOS and I still use it when I POS apps under Classic but webOS is every bit as simple and intuitive as POS.
Face it: all that swiping and card shuffling is nothing more than a GIMMICK. Even the basic PalmOS launcher is more efficient than the webOS swipey-wipey nonsense. Add Launcher X and McPhling to a Treo or Centro and behold the power of FUNCTION over GIMMICKS.
I actually did use LauncherX, ZLauncher, and several other launchers on my various PalmOS PDAs and Treos but I always kept coming back to the simple and clean default PalmOS launcher. And guess what? The webOS launcher looks a whole like the default PalmOS launcher. And I've made it look even more like the PalmOS launcher using the "Add and Remove Launcher Page" and "Named Pages in Launcher" patches.
I also used McPhling on my PDAs as well. On the Treos, the most recently used apps menu pop up made it less necessary but it came in handy for running DAs. But DAs for me were mostly away to get around the fact that PalmOS has no multi-tasking. Multi-tasking is the feature that works best on webOS and its easy to launch apps through Universal Search so I don't miss McPhling.
Can your Pre do the following:
1) Search the phone completely for a name or word?
Nope. And yes, this is a shortcoming no doubt about it.
2) Record voice memos natively?
Yes. Through zcorder.
3) Voice dial directly or over a Bluetooth headset?
I have never encountered a phone where this feature actually worked *well* so I don't miss it.
4) Change/program voicemail passwords?
No. Another feather for your cap.
5) Back up the entire phone memory to media and recover data from an on-device backup?
Actually there is a Save/Restore Homebrew app available for webOS.
As far as to the "Advantages of the Pre over the Centro" you listed:1) The Centro browser may not be very modern, but it's not WAP. Do you know ANYTHING about PalmOS devices?
Obviously not as much as you but the truth is that the Centro browser is a very poor excuse for anything other than very simple web pages. It may not technically be WAP but it might as well be. Any modern mobile browser, the webOS browser included, stands head and shoulders above the Centro's browser and has to be considered to be a huge advantage in today's web-centric world.
5) My Sprint Centro 2 is stable, fast and runs all my PalmOS apps without crashing. webOS is a slow beta OS and Classic is as flaky as hell - despite the fact that after every update Pre fanboys claim that it's finally been "fixed'. Here's a tip: The real "fix" is to either buy a Centro or for Palm to build its OWN PalmOS emulator natively into webOS (like they should have done from Day 1).
I didn't believe you the first 500 times you said this but now, on the 501st time, I'm finally convinced. I vow to ditch my Pre and buy a Centro off ebay immediately.
6) You think PalmOS isn't more (and more easily) customizable than webOS? How many launchers, skinners, hacks, etc. are available for PalmOS? Do a search and edumacate yourself before you spout more nonsense here.
As I wrote above, I did try a lot of l PalmOS launchers before going back to the default. I also tried several skinners, including Dmitry Grinberg's excellent SkinUI. And I used numerous hacks in the both the pre and post-Garnet era. So I think I'm pretty familiar with customization options for PalmOS. As for webOS, I count 1517 installable themes (I periodically change my phone's theme from time to time) and 348 patches (of which I've installed 61).
7) GPS is nice, but my Centro has the Garmin XT GPS map app. I just have to carry a matchbook-sized GPS receiver, but that's a simple compromise. The webOS "Universal Search" wasn't nearly as useful as the ancient PalmOS "Find" function last time I checked. And Google and tryda already give me all the mobile search data *I* need/want in a phone.
And of course your needs and wants are more important than mine....
Universal Search isn't perfect but its integration of Google, Google Maps, and Wikipedia and are invaluable to *me.* I never really understood the amount of love that Tryda got from people around here. It always seemed to forget its registration info if I didn't use it constantly which made a lot less useful to *me.*
12) Do you not realize that only reason Palm is releasing frequent updates to webOS is because the OS was originally released in beta form? Are you THAT naive? Even the current version of webOS (1.4) would more accurately be labelled as webOS 0.95b.
And yet Palm went years without updating Treo 700p. And the updates that they did put out for it never really fixed it for a lot of people. So I give them credit for getting their head out of their ass and actually fixing their bugs instead of letting them linger for years.
Palm Apologist
Shouting down the PIC Faithful Since 2009
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/You have been epic schooled.
Bring me my cognac.FJH
- Schooling fools since... forever.
I find it ironic that someone who routinely excoriates Palm for its supposed arrogance can conclude a post this way. But hey, if that's what it takes to work out your issues....
Fool/Palm Apologist
Shouting down the PIC Faithful Since 2009
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/
Someone kindly deleted my post fixing the HTML tag...
Good for you.
Advantages of Centro over Pre:
1) email - Chatteremail and even VersaMail make Pre's email solution look bad.
I never tried Chattermail on PalmOS but VersaMail crashed a lot on my old Treos, my LifeDrive, and TX. My Pre's email app has never crashed on me and with the right patches, it's a good, simple email app which is all I need.
I've used Chatteremail since it was released and it DESTROYS the Pre email app. I don't think Chatteremail has even crashed on me in the past 4 years. Palm butchered Multimail/VersaMail and failed to do much to improve what used to be the best PalmOS email app (10 years ago). Still, the version of VersaMail that shipped with Centros is better than the one that shipped with old PalmOS PDAs and early Treos.
2) PIM - Ability to run and sync bulletproof native Palm PIM and brilliant PIM replacement apps like DateBk6.
I've actually come to like the Calendar app on my Pre precisely because it can sync to multiple calendars and I can run DateBk under Classic.
You've "come to like" it? Wow - you sound like a battered spouse intent on making excuses for their abuser. DateBk6 exposes the Pre calendar app to be a joke.
3) Runs PalmOS 5 apps without crashing 10 times per day like the Garnet emulator Pre users are forced to buy.
Actually, Classic has been pretty stable since webOS 1.4 came out so I'm pretty happy with it these days.
Every time Classic or webOS are updated we hear from webOS apologists like you who claim that "this time" the Classic emulator is stable. How sad. Classic for webOS is a buggy work in progress. For Palm to have failed to include a rock solid PalmOS emulator in webOS shows how little they think of those of us who have supported the company over the past 14 years. To have the nerve to expect webOS users to PAY for Classic is shockingly arrogant - even for Palm.
4) Exposed keyboard.
Meh, the Centro's keyboard is nice but it's not like it's exceptionally good. I'm happy with my Pre's slider.
I never claimed the Centro keyboard was "exceptionally good". (Though the Sprint Centro 2 revised keyboard is the best I've used on a Palm-branded device.) It IS better than the horrible recessed Pre keyboard with its sharp surrounding edges.
5) Larger app library.
Until you factor in Classic. And I can install apps directly on my Pre without futzing
Classic is unstable and needs to be purchased at extra expense. If you glue an iPhone to the back of your Pre does that make your Pre a "better" phone?
6) Security of personal data.
If I want to secure my data on my Pre I can do so with Keyring. In any case, there will be no real data security on mobile devices until something like TrueCrypt arrives on them.
All your data on Palm's servers and in Google's clutches are vulnerable. (By the way, anyone dumb enough to trust "nice" Google should look deeper into the company. Here's a start:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/14/google-private-data-colle_n_577015.html )
Contrast the vulnerable Pre with my secure Centro that is protected with TealLock and other apps. Secure phone locking, card encryption, remote wiping, etc, etc.
7) No dependence on "the cloud".
Right, because it's bad when my phone backs itself up every day. It's bad when my phone can import my contacts from GMail and my appointments from Google Calendar.
Is your phone REALLY backed up to "the cloud"? Completely? How many Pre users have tried to restore their phones and gotten burned by Palm? My Centro is backed up COMPLETELY to SD card with 3 different apps. I've never lost data due to a bad restore. What happens if your data connection fails and you need to restore your Pre? You're screwed, that's what. If disaster strikes and my Centro becomes inoperable, I can pop my SD card out of my Centro, put it into a brand new (backup) Centro and have all of my old data on the new device in less than 5 minutes. The Old Palm recognized that on-device backup was a smart idea. The New Palm is more concerned about appeasing carriers (who want all of their customers to upgrade to lucrative data plans) and pushing "the cloud", even though Palm has yet to create apps that can actually show how cloud computing has any significant use. If you trust all of your data to Google and "the cloud" you're in for a RUDE awakening.
8) On-device backup and recovery.
9) Easy memory expansion with SD cards.
I do miss SD cards but not as much as I thought I would.
You sound like a cult member that is in serious need of deprogramming.
10) SPEED.
My old Treos had lag. The Centro had less lag. My old LifeDrive had *a lot* of lag. And my Palm TX very little lag. I don't really see much lag on my Pre, especially now that I'm overclocking it to 800 MHz with the Uber Kernel.
My Pilot Professional has no lag. My Palm IIIx has no lag. My Centro has minimal lag. The Pre has massive lag. This is a phone - lag is NOT acceptable. You had to overclock your Pre? Hilarious. Even you got so fed up with the Pre's crappy performance that you were forced to overclock it? Yet you claim the Pre doesn't have much lag? Get real.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/26/pre-gets-a-nasty-800mhz-overclock-patch-for-all-to-enjoy-at-one/
11) More intuitive user interface.
No, not to me.I loved PalmOS and I still use it when I POS apps under Classic but webOS is every bit as simple and intuitive as POS.
Face it: all that swiping and card shuffling is nothing more than a GIMMICK. Even the basic PalmOS launcher is more efficient than the webOS swipey-wipey nonsense. Add Launcher X and McPhling to a Treo or Centro and behold the power of FUNCTION over GIMMICKS.
12 Easy app development, mature development platform.
I'll give you the latter but not the former. Developing webOS apps is dead simple.
Developing PalmOS apps is even simpler.
13) Standard desktop sync.
Classic has had Hotsync since webOS 1.3.5. It was pretty buggy at first but then again PalmOS Hotsync has always had its problems. Things are working pretty well for me as far as "standard" sync goes. In any case, cloud-based syncing is just the next evolution of the same basic syncing that Palm pioneered over a decade ago. It's time to cut the cord.
webOS sync remains not yet ready for prime time. Yet another example of how webOS is still in BETA stage.
14) You forgot about one critical advantage: Documents to Go which does run under Classic but it's just not the same as running it natively.
There are a lot of other webOS deficiencies that I was kind enough to not mention above. Palm's failure to get DataViz on board with Documents To Go was a shocker. Palm's beancounters probably felt the company didn't have the money to pay Dataviz, so Dataviz played hardball with Palm and embarassed the company. Expect HP to IMMEDIATELY pay Dataviz whatever they demand for a licensed webOS version of Documents To Go to be included in the ROM of every webOS device shipping later this year.
webOS currently is answering a question that no PalmOS users were asking. Palm needs to bring out better HARDWARE and fix the multiple glaring problems with webOS pronto, or else iPhone and Android are going to kill webOS before it even has a chance to catch on.
webOS has answered most of *this* PalmOS user's questions. I struggled for eight months to replace my Treo 680 with a T-Mobile G1 and had carry a Palm TX along with it because Android's PIMs simply didn't cut it. I won't claim that webOS is perfect or even complete but it's growing by leaps and bounds in terms of capabilities. Yes, I'd like better hardware too and I'm pretty confident that we will get it soon.
In the mean time.
Advantages of the Pre over the Centro:
1. A real web browser. No more futzing with crappy WAP pages.
2. Wifi.
3. Tethering. I'm writing this sitting on a bus with my Pre feeding data to my netbook via wifi.
4. 3D gaming. It's a battery killer but it's fun.
5. Stability and robustness. Classic used to be the only app that could crash my Pre and even it has been behaving itself lately. I've never encountered a PalmOS PDA or smartphone which couldn't be crashed frequently and badly. I've even encountered stock factory-installed apps which could cause a hard reset on PalmOS devices (the Calculator on my old Treo 180g did this). I haven't encountered anything similar on my Pre.
6. Customization. Admittedly PalmOS is very customizable but webOS patches are just so amazing. I have been able to add a Today menu to my Pre's topbar which shows my Calendar entries. I've made the webOS launcher work like the original PalmOS launcher with named categories and a drop down list to navigate them. I can overclock my Pre's processor. I can put weather apps into my Dashboard or in an icon in my Quicklaunch bar. I have menu entry that allows me to use my Pre's LED as flashlight - not a crappy flashlight app that turns the screen white but a real flashlight. Add custom themes and wallpapers and
7. GPS and Universal Search. I've said it before and I'll say it a again but nothing beats being able to type out a search term like, say "refrigeration" and have Google Maps spit out a map and a nicely formatted list of local refrigeration contractors in my area complete with contact info. Searching for info has never been simpler.
8. Notifications. webOS Dashboard > a small flashing dot in the corner or the screen.
9. Homebrew. webOS has a growing and enthusiastic developer community while development for PalmOS is slowly dying.
10. The Touchstone Charger. No more messing with connectors, I just lay my phone on its charger and it charges.
11. Large hi-rez screen. After all the bitching and whining about the Treo and Centro's "small square screen," you'd think more people would appreciate the Pre nice, big screen.
12. Support. The Centro had what, three updates in its three year history? The Pre has had more than ten updates in less than one year.
Can your Pre do the following:
1) Search the phone completely for a name or word?
2) Record voice memos natively?
3) Voice dial directly or over a Bluetooth headset?
4) Change/program voicemail passwords?
5) Back up the entire phone memory to media and recover data from an on-device backup?
As far as to the "Advantages of the Pre over the Centro" you listed:
1) The Centro browser may not be very modern, but it's not WAP. Do you know ANYTHING about PalmOS devices?
2) Yes, Wi-Fi is a genuine advantage.
3) Centro can tether with PDANet or USB Modem.
4) How many 3D games are available for webOS? 10? Big deal. On top of that, lack of proper gaming buttons is a deal killer in my opinion.
5) My Sprint Centro 2 is stable, fast and runs all my PalmOS apps without crashing. webOS is a slow beta OS and Classic is as flaky as hell - despite the fact that after every update Pre fanboys claim that it's finally been "fixed'. Here's a tip: The real "fix" is to either buy a Centro or for Palm to build its OWN PalmOS emulator natively into webOS (like they should have done from Day 1).
6) You think PalmOS isn't more (and more easily) customizable than webOS? How many launchers, skinners, hacks, etc. are available for PalmOS? Do a search and edumacate yourself before you spout more nonsense here.
7) GPS is nice, but my Centro has the Garmin XT GPS map app. I just have to carry a matchbook-sized GPS receiver, but that's a simple compromise. The webOS "Universal Search" wasn't nearly as useful as the ancient PalmOS "Find" function last time I checked. And Google and tryda already give me all the mobile search data *I* need/want in a phone.
8) Centro + Butler + DateBk 6 = all the "notifications" I need/want.
9) webOS community is a feeble community that would have died out over the next year when Palm declared bankruptcy had the company not been sold off. The only reason that PalmOS development is dying is because of a decade of severe, perpetual, complete, arrogant neglect by Palm, followed by one year of Palm aggressively trying to KILL PalmOS off prematurely in an effort to force people to buy webOS devices. The fact that TealPoint was able to throw together TealOS in a few weeks and so thoroughly mimic the webOS UI is a sad indictment of Palm. Had Palm bothered to FIX the missing features and bugs in PalmOS 5, freshen the user interface by (optionally) changing the native launcher to TealOS or Launcher X YEARS ago, and put out some better hardware (e.g. an iPhone form factor) running PalmOS, PalmOS would still be thriving in 2010 and there would be ZERO need for the VAST majority of customers to switch to a webOS device. And don't get me started on how Palm has treated developers over the years. The company truly doesn't deserve to have ANY developers supporting it after all the crap Palm has pulled over the years with us.
10) The Touchstone charger is a cheaply-made, overpriced SCAM. A triumph of hype and form over function. My 5 year old Treo desktop chargers that charged both the Treo and an extra battery at the same time (while taking up minimal desk space) were useful accessories. The Touchstone, on the other hand is a cynical absolute joke of Steve Jobsian-black turtlenecked-pretentious-artsy epic proportions. I definitely wouldn't list the Touchstone an "advantage" in the Pre's favor:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/07/palm-pre-and-touchstone-get-torn-down-gently-beautifully/
11) while the Pre's screen is bigger and nicer than the Centro, its 3.1 inch 480 x 320 screen certainly doesn't qualify as "large" or "hi-rez". Not with 4.3 inch 800 x 480 screens popping up on the HTC HD2 and EVO and 4 inch screens becoming commonplace. In fact, 3.5 inch screens are starting to look downright puny these days. I'm in the minority, though in that I prefer smaller phones. I actually prefer the Centro form factor (despite the Small Square Screen) over the Pre's.
12) Do you not realize that only reason Palm is releasing frequent updates to webOS is because the OS was originally released in beta form? Are you THAT naive? Even the current version of webOS (1.4) would more accurately be labelled as webOS 0.95b.
Palm Apologist
Shouting down the PIC Faithful Since 2009
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/
You have been epic schooled.
Bring me my cognac.
FJH
- Schooling fools since... forever.
Rumor: HP webOS Hurricane tablet
http://besttabletreview.com/hp-hurricane-webos-tablet
Dump out the Android, pour in the webOS, write the missing drivers, done.
I hope so!!
RE: Rumor: HP webOS Hurricane tablet
HP ceased being HP with the Compaq deal. In the early years they were innovators designing technology advancing hardware, state of the art led displays and cutting edge calculators, now they are feeding off other companies. I expect another looser product from HP.
Gary
Tech Center Labs
RE: Rumor: HP webOS Hurricane tablet
In 2007 they tried to re-create the magic but lcd displays just don't hack it!
Gary
Tech Center Labs
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In plain English ... what happened?
How much money do these people want?
E-T
e-tellurian
Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
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