Treo 600 Leads in Carrier Data Revenue

i think is the chicken, hence, the former

Ander Zabala, MSc Student

This is Orange. In Europe the Treo 600 is not expensive. In fact you can get it on contract for next to nothing. So it already is a loss leader.

Edward Green
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http://www.khite.co.uk

Actually, conflagre, if you think of your post, there's a built in contradiction in it: Since we US Sprint users (yes, I'm one) do have the ridiculously low all we can eat data price of $10 flat rate, doing the streaming PockeTunes thing doesn't increase our monthly bill. So - it can't be said that doing the streaming radio deal increases our bill, given that we do indeed have the flat rate pricing (which is most yummy, I have to say). (yes, there've been reports of Sprint nabbing data hogs and smacking them with some other fee, but your point was that streaming radio made our bills go up. Not so)

I will say though, that I do have about a 4 year history with wireless Palm data usage, and it's been interesting to see how the bills have changed over time. I initially got going with Omnisky (remember them?), and had a flat rate gig for like $35, since I was part of their original beta group. I also had a cell phone via AT&T Wireless that I think averaged around $150 to $185. So that total was about $200 a month. When the Kyocera 6035 came out, I jumped to that device, and dumped the Omnisky/PalmVx combo. The carrier I selected was Verizon. At that time (early 2001), the concept of all you can eat data didn't exist in the minds of the carriers. So my VZW data usage came out of my cell minutes, and because of that, I got a big honkin' ton of 'em - 2000 anytime minutes, which back then ran about $200. And since I was used to unlimited surfing with that Omnisky, my first month's bill was like $600 (!!). Well, that stopped right away, and I had to seriously dial back my usage. Still, though, my bill averaged like $250 per month. Yikes.
When Sprint came out with the 300 (nice color screen, compared to the 6035), and the all I can eat data, and a good bucket of minutes - 2000 min, unlim data - all for like $100 a month, I was all over that. And I now have a 600, with the same plan, and unlimited surfing, etc. Yes, I can stream PockeTunes, but I don't do it all that often. I do use the heck outta the data capability though - I equate my 600 and Sprint's data plan to having DSL (ok, maybe a slower DSL) in my hands at all times. It's just there. I don't have to think about it.

So - the net here is that my functionality has increased over time, and, compared to my previous Verizon charges, my cost has gone down by more than half. Maybe I'm unique in that I got in early, but I like that the cost is lower than what it used to be.

I wanted bluetooth/wifi/hirez so I dumped sprint and got a SE T610 with tmobile. For an extra $5/month I have more than tripled my anytime minutes (to 1000 from 300) and have unlimited t-zones internet which is enough for me to satisfy two key wait-states: sitting on the john and waiting in line. With WIFI both at home and work I got a Tungsten C and love the speed. While I was initially excited by the treo 600, there was no way I was paying $599 for 160x160, no bluetooth, and a cramped keyboard. When I'm done accessorizing I will have spent more than $599, but oh well.

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David

My fault really - Orange do a deal where if you pay a small amount up front you get big discount on roaming calls. I was just too busy getting ready for the trip to arrange it.

And email worked fine when I switch to the Versamail client.

I had something similar - a SE T68i on O2 which used with Palm via BT but the convenience and wow factor of Trio 600 made me switch to Orange - and no regrets. Great machine.

Sorry can't remember. But had equally large international roaming bills from O2. I learnt the hard way to always enable key locking!

I don't like the look of the xda II - ugly, and I really like the keyboard on the smaller Treo - ideal for texting. Also Microsoft os devices typically have lower battery life which is really important when you rely on mobile phone / PDA. Its the tamagochi problem.

I used to have a BT headset but got rid of it with bought Treo. To be honest I didn't find it ideal - battery life only 3 days and yet another widget to carry around and remember to recharge. Also unless headset is always on your ear (which looks wierd and falls off) there's a rush to attach it when phone goes. And if the Treo does everything there's less of a need for connectivity.

Key point with the Treo 600 is you only need to carry one device! But 320x320 screen would be nice.

Yes - single key press and also timer automatically switches treo off after about 30 seconds - a good thing as it helps save battery

You don't know the cell phone market very well. This has winner all over it. I'll bet my farm and then take your farm when you loose it.

This is creating a new class of product. To think it is going to replace or even compete with cheap SMS cell phones you have your demographics's really off.

The Treo is what's called a "9 to 5" phone that is mostly used by white collar professionals that only want one item instead "Duo" of PDA and cell phone. Those with money who are organized and not so accident prone will use smart phones and not construction works nor drunk club chics.

In fact, smartphones represent the fastest growing segment of cell phone market. Smartphones have great potential to make revenue while the rest of the cell phone market is getting slim in margins. Most of all, no more screwed up 10 key SMS writing.

Go to the CTIA show in Atlanta this month, you will learn a lot.

anyone who thinks this device will fail, very obviously hasn't used one in person.

if you value you're ability to post here, you better stop making false uninformed judgments not based on any facts.

Not sure how the Treo 600 will fare, however the first company to release a small, flip style phone running Palm OS 5 or Garnet or bugaloo with a high res screen and decent battery life WILL have a hit on their hands. The days are coming when all cell phones will run a full fledged operating system. The Palm OS has a great chance of being one of the major players if they position themselves correctly. Take the Treo 600, add a hi res screen, a removeable battery, and reduce the overall size by 10%, and you'll have one kick ass phone.

"...you better stop making false uninformed judgments not based on any facts."

There are many, many posters to this forum that phrase could be applied to ... hmmmm.. new trend? ;-)

A Palm in hand is worth two in your pocket.

anyone who thinks this device will fail, very obviously hasn't used one in person.

if you value you're ability to post here, you better stop making false uninformed judgments not based on any facts.

It's unfortunate to hear you talk like this, Ryan. Instead of making threats, why don't you try to counter the points I made? Are you capable of arguing your position cogently? It should be easy for you to deconstruct my "false uninformed judgements not based on any facts", shouldn't it?

I do own a Treo 600 and have used it for several months. My observations are based in fact and will be shown to be true whether or not you choose to stick your head in the sand.

I thought this was a site attempting to promote discussion, and I will gladly discuss my points with anyone capable of responding with a modicum of thought. Good day.

It's just too big.

OK, I'll have a shot. The original list of 10 points can be split into three categories:

a) design isn't right (nos 1 & 10)
Basic question: is the size of the Treo 600 right? Well I'd say yes, as any larger and it would be horrid, but any smaller and it couldn't have a keyboard or reasonable screen size. To me the benefits of having just one device that does so much are worth it being slightly larger than (say) a T610. Its amazing I can view this site and post comments from _anywhere_ in world single-handed. And its changed how I see sending texts forever.

For those that dream of the single device solution, the Treo 600 is getting close. But no cigar. The screen is simply too small for those with more "mature" eyes to comfortably use for any period of time. The low res + too bright screen doesn't help, either. To view web pages etc. comfortably, you probably need a screen about 50% larger. The keyboard on the Treo 600 is nice but the tactile feel of the buttons is somewhat lacking if used for extended text entry. Separate PDA = space needed for bigger, better buttons. Most people like their phones as small and light as possible. The Treo 600 needs to shed 2 ounces, 20% of its size and the external antenna to really have a chance to be acceptable to typical cellphone users. I feel Palm should ditch the keyboard, keep the D-pad and use the extra space for screen real estate.

b) implementation isn't right (nos 2,3,5,6,7)
Question here: is it badly made or expensive? Well it survived my trip across the atlantic in a 41 foot yacht without any problems. On contract its cheaper than almost any PDA. Slight issue with buzz in background of voice calls when signal strength low, but in general its done everything well without a problem.

In North America, the Treo 600 costs between $300 - $700 depending on whether or not it's purchased with contract. They just can't compete on price with phones like the Sony Ericsson T610 (recently Amazon.com had an offer that PAID customers around $200 if they signed up for service with a T610). Go to http://discussion.treocentral.com/f58/s and you'll learn about Palm's quality control problems from real end users. And the phone's basic phone functionality is lacking.

c) palm's market position is dangerous (nos. 4, 8, 9)
Question here: can palm compete with existing handset manufacturers? This is where I would at least partially agree. Palms strength of more s/w available is not one that necessarily sells more handsets, and indeed many operators might not want that amount of user flexibility as cost of support increases. As noted above all the nice features of Treo 600 can be "borrowed" into other devices. If there were 3 devices, one pocket-pc (say from motorola), one palm, one symbian (say from nokia) all looking just like Treo, what would be palm's USP? But that actually is saying the value of the design of the Treo 600 would have been noted and accepted by the industry.

So I'd say the _design concepts_ in the Treo 600 are / will be a success, but the future of palm is less certain.

I agree with your last sentence. But phones with keyboards like the Treo 600 will only be niche players. The smartphone of the (near) future will have most of the front taken up with a dazzling high res screen that can function as a virtual keypad when dialling in phone mode and a wide screen for browsing, email, videophone and TV/video viewing. 4 - 5 oz is the maximum weight that will sell to the masses.

It's just too big.

The truth is that no one knows if the Treo 600 will fail.

Based on the latest sales figures I have on the Treo 600, it is already failing. The points made above explain why this is happening. Just because you are unaware of this doesn't alter the truth. Like the PSION line before them, I expect Palm to run out of money before they can engineer a design that will sell well. Sony's new models will easily undercut Palm's equivalent PDAs this spring, siphoning off even more profits from a shinking market. The pie is getting too small to keep Palm fed.

A Sony Ericsson P900 shrunk by around 75%, running PalmOS and with the Treo 600 keyboard on the flip pad is the type of convergence device that will have legs. So far, everything released by ALL the manufacturers has been little more than beta hardware. Useful, but still beta.

Bookmark this page, return in six months and see who was right.

It's just too big.