Opinion: Tungsten T5, What the heck happened?
PalmInfocenter reader and forum moderator, Derek Kessler (aka Captain Hair), has sent in a new opinion piece. Derek muses about the long build up and his disappointment regarding the palmOne Tungsten T5 handheld. Read on for the full article.
Opinion: Tungsten T5, What the heck happened?
An editorial by Derek Kessler
January 31st, 2005
I remember when the leaks about the pa1mOne Tungsten T5 first surfaced. Hi-res+, 256 mb, Bluetooth, Wi-fi, new connector, and Palm OS Cobalt. Some rumors said it would forgo the slider in favor of a slate form. I was one of those weirdos who actually liked the slider, but pa1mOne had done an excellent job with the Tungsten series, and with the acquisition of Handspring, I trusted them to put out a decent PDA.
Then came the first pictures, T3 top, no slider, and Tungsten C buttons (no thumboard). Those were quickly killed, but followed by a slew of Tungsten Es with Hi-res+. The forums on the internet rejected the pictures, but they kept coming. I was among those screaming, “No! pa1mOne’s not dumb enough to do that!” A few weeks later: 1) Open mouth. 2) Insert foot.
I was in shock. They’d taken my sacred T3 and desecrated it. It was an abomination! This was the first time I hadn’t considered buying/drooling over the newest Palm. There were no thoughts of turning to the Windows Mobile camp, but I briefly considered going converged with the shiny new Treo 650, but, alas, this article was written on my stylus-bound T3.
I went on to read the specifications of this blasphemous thing. 256 Mb of NVFS RAM. It’s about time. Little did I realize the potentially disastrous consequences that NVFS could have for some programs, back-ups in particular, but the gobs of memory with internal card capability – something I’d long yearned for – and power-failure-proofness made it okay.
The first flaw many of us noticed, besides its awkward aesthetic design, was the absence of an LED. What? No way to know if it’s charging unless I turn it one? Strike two (strike one being its case). No vibrating alarm? Strike three. What on Earth were the engineers over at pa1mOne thinking? Or was it somebody in management or marketing? Plastic case. I have held one, and while it does feel more ‘real’ than the Tungsten E’s case, it did still feel like a plastic case. After two years of metallic Tungstens, this was unacceptable. Strike four. No Wi-Fi? Nobody can really figure out what the thought process was behind this one. It’s become pretty much standard on any high-end PDA. Any battery drain caused by it being on when not used it circumvented by turning it off. Way to go, nice job forcing sales of your Wi-Fi SD card. Strike five. No cradle. If you expect me to plop down four hundred USD on this thing, you better through in a cradle. Or at least not charge me 50 USD for it. Strikes six and seven. There are 624 Mhz Intel PXA processors available (there’s one in the Dell x50v), but pa1mOne opted for the 416 Mhz Intel. It’s such a marginal improvement over the T3’s 400 Mhz Intel, which my year of heavy use has not shown any lag or slowness. Why bother? It’s almost like an insult. Strike eight.
Other things that irked me: speaker on the back, absence of the sproing stylus, slaving the buttons to Favorites and Files, pleathery flip cover, Bluetooth 1.1 (as opposed to at least 1.2 or now 2.0), Palm OS Garnet 5.4 (Cobalt had been out for a year by now, and 6.1 had been released something like four months earlier), the absence of the slider (the thing looks huge, even though it’s not much bigger than my T3), no built-in lightsaber, etc.
It seemed almost as if the T5 was originally intended to be the Tungsten E2, replacing the aging TE. The T5 was supposed to come out simultaneously, but run Cobalt. PalmSource butchered Cobalt to get it out by their self-imposed deadline, and nobody wanted it. pa1One had a release schedule to conform to, and the T3 was beginning to show its age, so they stole the E2 and shoved what they could fit from the T5 into the case. Marketing trumped the engineers.
That said, there were things I liked. The Drive Mode concept rocks. Granted, it requires you to bring a cable with you if you want to use it, but this is just the first go around with this for Palm.
I like the idea of NVFS, and on a handheld with massive memory, the issues that appear on the Treo 650 do not present major issues. Again, there are incompatibilities with some programs, but this is pa1mOne’s first go around with NVFS and the issues will be worked out. Eventually.
The new connector is good. I like that they decided to put audio capabilities in. I don't like that my extra cradle, Power To Go, Ultra-Thin Keyboard, and Tom Tom car cradle won’t work. Sheesh, I’ve spent more on accessories than I did on the initial Palm. I’m thinking that’s not a good sign. And that didn’t include programs… Ouch, I’ve got to stop thinking about this.
Internal drive capability is great. It’s something I’ve dreamed about for a long time and paves the way for even larger internal drives. Some have argued that this is a waste of money as opposed to a USB thumb drive, but the T5 has the capability to edit those files on the go, something you can’t do with your average flash drive.
The Files application works great. I rather like the ability to tap on any file, even non-PRC and PDB (Palm files) and open them, if there is a compatible application present. If I load an MP3 onto the internal drive, or an SD card, I can browse through the card, find a song, and open it, immediately launching RealPlayer (which is audibly enhanced over the version provided in the T3). I can find a Microsoft Word .DOC file and open it with Documents to Go 7 (which comes with spell-check and word count standard).
Thus far, the T5 seems to being selling well, despite my objections. pa1mOne has stated that the T5 is a new generation device, not a sequel to the T3. Many T3 owners, such as myself, have chosen not to upgrade. It’s the first time I haven’t upgrade; the T5 seems more like a sidegrade, a trade-off. But, there are reasons that it’s still selling fairly well. Owners of older Palms, such as the m5xx series, were in general wary of the Tungsten T series’ sliders. Even though problems with the slider were minimal, they held off. When the T5 came out, it had everything they needed. Sure, they may have lost a few features, but they caught up with two to three years of technology. Another group were the upgraders. They had low-end Palms, like the Zire series. It had come to the time that the basic Palm was no longer fulfilling their needs, so it was time to jump up to a T-series handheld, and the newest one available. I did that with a m100 and a Tungsten T. Never regretted it. A third group are the noobs. They’re new to PalmLand and eager to learn. As a result, they buy the best handheld money can buy. Well, it’s new, and costs more than the others, so it must be better, right? I’m not trying to insult anybody here, we’ve all fallen victim to the new and the shiny. The last group is the super addicts. They bought the original Palm Pilot when it first came out. Then they bought the Pilot 1000. And a III, IIIx, IIIc, V, Vx, m500, m505, m515, Tungsten T, T2, and T3. And after a year of starvation, they bought the T5. And all of that did not include the Sony Clies or Tapwave Zodiacs.
I hope the T5 continues to sell well. But, I also have hopes that the T5 flops. pa1mOne dropped the ball on this one, putting out a mediocre handheld that alienated their loyal followers. I also hope somebody like Tapwave (Sony’s gone from the PDA market, so forget them) puts out a fantastic Palm that sells so well that pa1mOne is forced to innovate again. That’s what spawned the Tungsten series (competition with Sony), but pa1mOne doesn’t seem to feel threatened by the growing cloud of Windows Mobile. They have VGA screens. They have more than two PDAs with built-in Wi-Fi. They have CF card slots (CF cards come in micro-hard drives up to 4 GB). They have multi-tasking. It doesn’t matter how well the features are implemented, all that matters is that they are not on Palms.
The T5 is not a worthy competitor in the PDA market. pa1mOne is still the largest player in the PDA market, and they need to flex their muscles and come out with something that will “Wow!” us, or they are doomed. I don’t want to be all gloomy, but that’s the impression that I’m getting. -Derek
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RE: It's apparently Crap Week at PIC
Then why does this "new generation" device look suspiciously like the old generation device?
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Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
Might be the last Palm I'll ever buy
http://palmdoc.blogspot.com/2005_01_01_palmdoc_archive.html#110721063390114953
But really, unless palmOne comes up with a "power users" palmOS powered PDA, I would seriously think of getting something else. The Dell X50V for instance looks so much better value for money on hardware specs alone.
The only reason why I got the T5 was I got tired of my T3's digitizer problems (replaced twice already).
On the whole the T5 is "okay" as a replacement. It is an interim PDA for me. I am not into the smartphone thing but if palmOne does not deliver this year, I might have to go the PPC way.....
T3 user
RE: Might be the last Palm I'll ever buy
However, it runs Windows Pocket PC whatever, and I HATE IT. This is the most horrible handheld OS ever made. It's simply horrible.
Initially I was thinking of switching to it as my main PDA, but after spending a few weeks with the axim, Palm will always remain my main handheld.
RE: Might be the last Palm I'll ever buy
Another poor sould lured in by the siren call of better specs -- and then mugged by the inhuman software.
You don't need that GPS to point you back to POS.
But maybe p1 could use a GPS!
RE: Might be the last Palm I'll ever buy
However, my shopping experience pointed me to a lesson that Palm should have learned a long time ago. Your presence in a B&M store is very important. Palm's simply have no "pop" when sitting next to the new PPCs. If you don't know the power of Palm, you easily gravitate towards the flashy PPC units. Palm really has to compete here.
RE: Might be the last Palm I'll ever buy
Bill...
[Still sticking with my T3 -- might buy another one as backup]
RE: Might be the last Palm I'll ever buy
it's called the Garmin Ique. Absolutely horrible battery life ( about 60-90 minutes with backlight and GPS on). But decent built quality, Hires+, built-in antenna (good for walks). first rate GPS software (i think garmin still has the lead there) and eh... Palm OS! I haven't seen the VGA PPCs, but I feel that my eyes would be the limiting factor at any higher resolutions (pixels/inch)
Older device, but it still fits MY bill........
Garmin 3600 iQue
RE: T3: The Last Good Palm Made
RE: T3: The Last Good Palm Made
I do think that P1 needs to keep the 'power user' segment, because it's not just they that use the 'power' features. For example, I don't need to have a voice recorder for most of my day. But when I need it, boy is it handy. And I find wi-fi very handy in general, although I may not use it as often as some power users. I have been very loyal to P1 over the years, despite the ridicule of friends and family, and the T5 has been a huge disappointment, to say the least. P1, this is your last chance!
RE: T3: The Last Good Palm Made
_________________
Sean
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.
RE: T3: The Last Good Palm Made
Oh, not me. I just LOOOVE having to keep handy a p3 connector, P5 connector, handspring connector, Palm "universal" connector, Treo connector, and (if PalmOne ever builds anything worth buying again) the new "athena" connector. Good thing I dumped the Zodiac and never bothered with SONY's shiny junk.
It would be less of an issue if each connector was noticeably better than the old one, but from holding Athena (making 2 cables out of 1 - brilliant thinking there) it appears that it's LESS able to stay attached to the handheld or Treo than the "Universal" Connector or the Treo 90-600 connectors. The extra power cord gives it one more thing to carry, connect, wear out and get lost. Hey- what they lose in customer satisfaction they gain in sales of accessories - good job MBA's!!
The T5 is kind of the last straw for me :(
I've been a long time supporter of the PalmOS, but I'm literally tonight probably going to place an order for an Axim x50v.
I'm sick of PalmOne's reliability problems. I've purchased 6 PalmOne units over the years, and all 6 have had serious issues.
Vx-completely died three days after I bought it. Returned it for:
IIIxe-The pixels in the corner of the screen turned black the more I used it. Like within a few days the edges of the screen were completely black, and it was creeping inwards. Returned it for:
IIIxe-Worked great for maybe 4 months, then the digitizer started going nuts. After about 8 months it was worthless, even when I tried various programs that claim to fix digitizer problems.
Tungsten T-the screen was somehow mounted wrong so that you could barely see it when viewed straight on. You had to turn it at an angle to view it.
Zire 71 and Tungsten E-both of these had HORRIBLE screen hum, so much that you could hear them over the roar of servers in a server room, or across the room.
And of course I’ve heard all the complaints of the M5xx series that quit syncing through USB, the T3’s digitizer problems and screws falling out, etc. There is SOMETHING WRONG when 6 out of 6 products you buy from a company are faulty.
In between those PalmOne PDAs I had two Handsprings, and 3 Clies, all of which worked flawlessly. I’d just buy the newest Clie, if they were still available (not that I was crazy about their wacky designs, but at least they were reliable).
At any rate, I accidentally damaged my current Clie, and need a replacement pretty soon. I’ve played with the T5, but:
-You can’t replace JOT with Graffiti, and I *hate* JOT.
-Text input lags badly, making JOT even harder to use.
-The first button is hardwired to the launcher (although apparently a third party app fixes this)
-The screen seems to hum, although I can’t tell for sure in a store
-No voice recorder! On a business oriented PDA? I thought the Zire 72 was a sign that PalmOne had gotten their act together and was finally going to include recorders on all their mid and high end PDAs (IMO this is the one thing Microsoft really did right with WinCE).
-The buttons don’t turn on the unit immediately, meaning you have to hold them down long enough to turn the unit on, but not a second too long, or the application the button loaded will start flipping between different views.
Meanwhile, the Axim line seems to be built well, has graffiti, and amazing features for the price, but the OS is VERY clunky. Even still, I don’t trust that a T5 would last me very long, and the combination of sluggish text entry and JOT makes using it possibly at least as frustrating as using a Pocket PC…so I’m pretty sure I’m just going to bite the bullet and try an Axim. I know I’m not the only one-Palm really needs to get their act together, or we desperately need another big third party like Sony.
RE: The T5 is kind of the last straw for me :(
Don't forget the Zire 72 and T|3. I'll never ever buy another P1 device until they fix this problem. Being able to hear the hum (or should I say whine?) while waiting inside a plane spooling up its engines is too much for me. And all those sessions reading in the library/lab really hurts my head.
pen & paper -> m515 -> Zire72 -> TH55 & Handera 330
RE: The T5 is kind of the last straw for me :(
http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/compare.aspx/pda?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
Have a nice life.
RE: The T5 is kind of the last straw for me :(
Cheers,
RE: The T5 is kind of the last straw for me :(
RE: The T5 is kind of the last straw for me :(
I concur with the people that say it's probably PalmOne or Source trying to save face after jamming G2 down our throats. There is a HUGE underground of people that have loaded the G1 library onto their G2-supplied devices.
...And in true Palm customer-oriented fashion, their response to this was not to offer G1 (now that the lawsuit's dead) but to LOCK OUT the ability to even hack back to G1 on the "T5." Talk about putting the nail in the coffin for that device....
RE: The T5 is kind of the last straw for me :(
RE: The T5 is kind of the last straw for me :(
All good things...
RE: The T5 is kind of the last straw for me :(
What Palm did with the T5 is suspicious. Dropping the LED, vibrator, voice recorder and changing the connector (without providing some type of adapter) is negligent and arrogant to say the least.
To have people criticized for making these observations is nuts because this is how the global economy works---producers produce what consumers want to consume--- and for Palm to be delusional in thinking that they can live on the laurels of their operating system is not fair to them or us the customers.
Where are the cobalt and garnet os systems and where is a true upgrade to the T3.
I like so many others have purchased many (4) palm devices, I’ve had to upgrade accessories to fit the new devices; 2 wireless keyboards, 2 GPS' (Magellan and tom-tom), various cradles and sync cords all of which will not fit on the t5. I have purchased a fortune in software and software updates, these purchases have kept me loyal to Palm (along with the great graphics, and operating system) now that the new devices will not fit my accessories I may as well look elsewhere if Palm will not produce what I want to consume.
My T3 battery would not hold a charge longer then 25 minutes so I bought and replaced the battery; it now last about one hour. I would like to upgrade to a new device.
Thank you, svrontis but I already have the links to dell, compact and everyone else, I will wait till December and then I will decide.
Palm people I hope you read this and are working on a new knock out device using customer enhanced research.
This is my third palm unit and I have invested heavyly and stuck with the Palm name
Don't Forget
More T5 Issues
1. Find Bug - can't find data strings more than 8 hits. Palm says "Go pound sand and buy a 3rd party app."
2. Calendar Bug - I think fixed with a patch but just sloppy programming.
3. Dialog Box Bug - I think fixed with a patch but just sloppy programming.
4. DIA Static - NVFS strikes.
5. Long Sift reset times, 3 Minute Hard Reset Times.
6. Very Poor Backward Software Compatability yet such a "minor" OS upgrade.
7. Crash happy right out of the box.
8. NVFS stores data in BIG chunks sucking up memory at a much faster rate than normal RAM.
9. SLuggish operation - NVFS strikes again.
10. Some crashes require a "ZERO OUT RESET" - which ERASES ALL OF YOUR DATA DESPITE THE "VIRTUES" of NVFS.
Also - Captain Hair - what is your source that says this PIG is selling well??
RE: Don't Forget
Who designed this thing? The only thing I like about it is that it's the first PalmOS device with a 320x480 screen and a normal form factor...but everything else seems wrong.
RE: Don't Forget
Support Knowledge Library
Solution ID: 38782
'Find' function shows the same eight Contact matches when it should show more
The "Find" function searches through all the databases on your device. palmOne has discovered an issue in which the "Find" function displays a maximum of eight matches in the Contacts application, although there may be more matches in Contacts.
What do you mean by "Find"?
We're talking about the global search function on the Tungsten T5 handheld. "Find" is launched when you tap the small magnifying glass icon in the status bar at the bottom of the screen. When you enter the search term and hit OK, the Tungsten T5 searches through the index files for its databases, application by application.
What is the issue?
In order for this particular issue to occur, all of these factors must be present:
You have more than eight Contacts with the same string of text in their Contact info
Example: you have more than eight people whose last or first names, email addresses, web sites, AIM names or home addresses begin with "sm" — Smilla Anderson, John Smythe, smartypants@palmone.com, www.smittenwithpalmone.com, etc.
You use the built-in "Find" function to locate that text
Example: you search on "sm"
The item you're looking for does not appear in the first screen of Contacts, so you tap Find More.
The same eight Contacts are displayed every time you tap Find More. You can't continue searching in other applications once the eight Contacts are displayed.
What should I do?
The "Find" function is a subsystem of the Palm OS. It is a rudimentary feature of your handheld that performs basic searches. There are third-party search utilities on the market that offer robust features and flexible searching options beyond the basic "Find" function included with the Tungsten T5 handheld (and which do not encounter the issue with displaying only eight Contacts). Search the palmOne Software Connection for third-party handheld search utilities, such as IntelligentFind.
Note: the presence of a third party product in this article should be not be construed as an endorsement of that product, nor should its absence be considered a denigration. palmOne does not manufacture any third-party products mentioned above, and cannot provide support for them. If you purchase a third-party product and require help with it, contact the manufacturer.
yaaawwwwn
"Why if those corporate cronies at P1 don't acknowledge the business acumen of us loyal (albeit vaccillating) users soon, we'll, we'll, errr...buy a PPC."
How about some informative articles on NVFS/T5/connectivity (or whatever!) for a change?
Casio(256k)>Psion Siena(1M)> Visor Prism(8M)> TungstenT(16M)>T5(256M!)
RE: yaaawwwwn
RE: yaaawwwwn
Yes, I'm calling all of you out. You know who you are.
Move out of your parents basements, get a job in the mobile industry and start doing real work to affect the change you want to see in the industry.
STOP trying to pass off your whiny rants as opinion pieces and your "My Ultimit PDA" drawings you make in history class as business plans.
Granted, Palm should not get a cakewalk here, they have screwed up, but the T5 has been out for MONTHS now. Get OVER it .
PIC USED to be interesting and informative.
Now it should be renamed PSC for "Palm Slam Center" because that's really what makes up most of the content here. It's like continuous re-runs of "Steve-Dave" and "Walt The Fanboy" from the Kevin Smith movies except you're talking about PDAs instead of comics.
RE: yaaawwwwn
well considering that all three of you schmucks have 20 or less posts here each, you don't bring much to the table anyway. stop biatching and hit the bricks if you don't like it here. no one is going to miss you.
RE: yaaawwwwn
Its the quality of the posts, not the quantity. That said, I have to say that PalmOne needs a "wow" product in 2006.
"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill
RE: yaaawwwwn
The posts from svrontis, RoadKnight and rcartwright in this thread are high quality posts.
The administrators of this site continue to allow the useless people to pollute the message boards. Channel your frustration there.
RE: yaaawwwwn
If this isn't the perfect match for someone's uses, the next unit will be wrong for someone else. I have a T|C and can't use the keybord, my wife has it now, can't live without it and will be heading to the Treo 650 when Cingular releases it. It has the features that she 'needs' in her life. Others hate the 650, it doesn't mean Palm got it wrong. Just wrong for you.
-----------------
My wife has to sell a lot of candles (www.ccandles.com) to buy her new Palm.
RE: yaaawwwwn
In a way, I agree with you. Though in the case of the last two models out of PalmOne, the T5 and 650, they are touted as "upgrades" to previous models. Even the numbering system coincides: T3->T5, Treo 600->Treo 650..
Now I don't know about you, but "industry standard" as I understand it usually means that when something's an "upgrade" it is actually an upgrade - people who have the old model will be able to have the at least as much functionality as the model it allegedly replaces, plus some potential extras that make the $400-600 a little more bearable.
Now I'm not saying it's necessarily "right" or "wrong" to remove vibrating alarms on the T5, or have 33% LESS memory than a Treo 600 in a Treo 650, but it's sure not any sort of improvement and most sane people would call it a "downgrade."
Why PalmOne made these decisions is up to them, and perhaps their declining sales numbers can be seen as feedback about how well the market enjoyed being offered less for more as they "discontinue" more usable models.
Nonetheless, "right" and "wrong" is for the philosophers to chew over as they apply layers of duct tape to their older and older Palms as hope springs eternal that PalmOne will release REAL upgrades soon.
RE: yaaawwwwn
another sucker
That's good :) The "We the Suckers" thread was one of the longest in recent memory!
All good things...
RE: yaaawwwwn
"I really hate to hear you guys argue....but then again conflict inspires innovation. I hope the folks at palm read this stuff and take it seriously. I sense that Palm has become a product of the big gorilla on the block. (Meaning that they don't have to be competitive their competitors do). If this attitude has been incorporated in the palm culture it is a deadly mistake; many failed corporations can attest to this."
This is my third palm unit and I have invested heavyly and stuck with the Palm name
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It's apparently Crap Week at PIC
-- where did they say this?