Sony Says No More Clie Handhelds

PDAs will never disappear [b] entirely [/b]. That said, I forsee the next 4-5 years bringing about the ultimate reassignment for PDAs from the frontlines of personal mobile tech to the commodity, mass-market <$100 blister-packaged market that Royal, Casio BOSSes and Sharp Wizards occupied for the better part of the past decade. There will always be a need for a cheap Zire-style device for soccer moms, college kids, and salesmen to use for basic PIM functions. However, PDAs mated with keyboards, wireless connectivity, and multimedia has been a tenuous relationship at best so the low-end of the market (again, think Z31/T|E and below) is where things will ultimately settle.

Even though their made a bunch of iffy choices, Sony should ultimately be applauded for trying to invigorate the market (and succeeding to do so from '01 to '03) in the days before smartphones really rose to prominence.

Sony did a poor job of being a handheld maker. Its initial Clie models were lame. Later, it got more serious and developed some very good models. I'm talking back in the T665C days. It was way ahead of what Palm was putting out, and prices were good.

However, Sony spooked many buyers by refreshing its line every couple of months. People were afraid to buy because they new something better was always just around the corner. Also, this meant Sony had to pour money into R&D.

Later, Sony got too aggressive with its designs... and too expensive. The NX80V was a great handheld, but there just isn't much market for $600 handhelds. And the UX50 wasn't even a good handheld, and cost what a laptop does.

And finally, Sony was a victim of in fighting. The company has been losing money, and the Clie line was cut to save costs.

All I'm trying to say is, don't read too much into this. Handhelds will survive; handheld companies that shoot themselves in the foot won't.

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Editor-in-Chief
Brighthand.com

Who keeps deleting my very informative graphic, illustrating the downwards trend of PLMO's stock price over the last 3 months, and projecting their demise in another 3-6 months?

And why?

Surur

Hello, you just had to say so, you know.
Must be a mime type thing.

Try

http://surur.sytes.net/index.html

Surur

Not just Palm Os. Check out the PPC world. Toshiba, Casio pulled out HP bought Compaq thus killing the jornada. Now the only significant PPC is the Ipaq.

If you check current Ipaqs they are lackluster simmilar to last year models but now with ugly boxy bodies, unlike the 1900 series. Now they are making a Treo like PPC Phone.

RE: Bad sign
EdFrmBrighthand @ 2/22/2005 4:09:40 PM

Sony did a poor job of being a handheld maker. Its initial Clie models were lame. Later, it got more serious and developed some very good models. I'm talking back in the T665C days. It was way ahead of what Palm was putting out, and prices were good.

Its initial CLIE models were lame, huh? That's probably the dumbest thing I've ever seen posted here at PIC. And considering all the verbal diarrhea spewed by Mike Cane over the years, that's saying a lot. Compare the S300 and N710 to what Palm had available when those models were released and suddenly Ed from Brighthand is revealed to be a clueless fop.

However, Sony spooked many buyers by refreshing its line every couple of months. People were afraid to buy because they new something better was always just around the corner. Also, this meant Sony had to pour money into R&D.

Of course. Far better to avoid innovation altogether like how Palm did for years. Or release "stunning" innovations like what we saw when Palm added memory to the III -> IIIx -> IIIxe etc to create its dramatic new models. Yes, spending on R + D in a new market segment is always wrong.

Later, Sony got too aggressive with its designs... and too expensive. The NX80V was a great handheld, but there just isn't much market for $600 handhelds. And the UX50 wasn't even a good handheld, and cost what a laptop does.

The UX50 wasn't even a good handheld, huh? Strange how many of the most experienced, knowledgeable Palm users in the PDA community feel the UX50 remains overall the "best" PalmOS PDA ever released. But what do power users know? By the way, a Ferrari can cost as much as a house - guess they "aren't even a good car", right Ed? Get a clue, Buddy.

And finally, Sony was a victim of in fighting. The company has been losing money, and the Clie line was cut to save costs.

All I'm trying to say is, don't read too much into this. Handhelds will survive; handheld companies that shoot themselves in the foot won't.

Sony HAS been losing a lot of money from some divisions (e.g. TVs) due to poor product planning over the past two years. Last year, some camps within Sony pushed aggressively to refocus the company and consolidate their product lines. It's understandable (but inexcusable) that with PSP coming, CLIE was felt to be expendable.

Sony pushed the envelope in PDAs (spend a few minutes reviewing all of their models and the features they were the first to introduce to the Palm platform). If Sony, the most innovative PalmOS company feels the platform is no longer worthy of investment, it seems obvious that PalmOS is dead. HandEra - the other creative PalmOS company has long since departed. Sony's announcement is the final nail in Palm's coffin. This is a sad day for ALL Palm users - not just CLIE fans. We're all about to get Netscaped in 2005.

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Editor-in-Chief
Brighthand.com

It's pathetic to see that an editor of a major PDA site could be so uninformed about such an important issue. You should print a retraction before Brighthand's name is damaged by your comments the way it was by the m505 screen hack.

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=1951

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Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

For the record, I don't agree with a lot of what Ed put forth in this thread. That having been said, does anyone, at any point in time listen the ironically named "Voice of Reason"??

Kudos to Ryan for keeping a relatively hands off approach to the forums, but this guy is a piece of work. I haven't seen one intelligent post from the Voice....ever.

I guess I should stop giving him any more pub though, huh?

"... responsible for nearly all of the substantial innovations in Palm OS handhelds..."

Don't get over exited there. Check the timeline (palmevolution.com if need be). Trg/HandEra brought as much or more to the platform as Sony (and beat Sony on a number of features.) And rather than keep things to themselves as Sony tended to, they had already been doing work for other licensees, and continued to. So much of their innovations and or code, propagated to other devices, leaving lasting impressions on the platform (even if mostly uncredited).
-Virtual graffiti
-Landscape mode
-Card slots with a FAT filesystem API - also first with dual card slots
-Playback of native .wav files from that card through a real speaker
-ROM based backup and file management
-Only PalmOS device with built in support for a wide range of expansion card devices (half dozen brands of WiFi cards, any NE2000 ethernet card, GPS, CPDP, barcode (laser, wand, CCD hand scanner, modems, and some others. I love how the review here on PIC in 2001 says "New m500 series and N710C owners are going to have to wait a while for a full range of peripherals to be available" We're still waiting... And far too many of those we do finally have only come with PalmOne or Sony stamped on them.
-Built in voice recording
-First in PalmOS for user swappable lithium rechargeable pack, and only with revert-ability to AAA's
-First high-res non-square screen.
-First PalmOS PDA outside of Japan to sport a jog dial (beat Sony and the N710C by a month)
-First to support ROM updates via card based image files (waaaay back in 1999 no less).

"... responsible for nearly all of the substantial innovations in Palm OS handhelds..."

Don't get over exited there. Check the timeline (palmevolution.com if need be). Trg/HandEra brought as much or more to the platform as Sony (and beat Sony on a number of features.) And rather than keep things to themselves as Sony tended to, they had already been doing work for other licensees, and continued to. So much of their innovations and or code, propagated to other devices, leaving lasting impressions on the platform (even if mostly uncredited).
-Virtual graffiti
-Landscape mode
-Card slots with a FAT filesystem API - also first with dual card slots
-Playback of native .wav files from that card through a real speaker
-ROM based backup and file management
-Only PalmOS device with built in support for a wide range of expansion card devices (half dozen brands of WiFi cards, any NE2000 ethernet card, GPS, CPDP, barcode (laser, wand, CCD hand scanner, modems, and some others. I love how the review here on PIC in 2001 says "New m500 series and N710C owners are going to have to wait a while for a full range of peripherals to be available" We're still waiting... And far too many of those we do finally have only come with PalmOne or Sony stamped on them.
-Built in voice recording
-First in PalmOS for user swappable lithium rechargeable pack, and only with revert-ability to AAA's
-First high-res non-square screen.
-First PalmOS PDA outside of Japan to sport a jog dial (beat Sony and the N710C by a month)
-First to support ROM updates via card based image files (waaaay back in 1999 no less).

Why is it that my 1999 TRGpro shipped with a reliable backup utility, while in 2005, Palm's top-of-the-line Treo 650 and Tungsten 5 have no such built-in ability? Ridiculous.

Unlike Sonyu, TRG/HandEra was about open standards and maximizing functionality through pragmatic solutions. (How could you forget the biggest advance of all: AutoCF? FFS/AutoCF and TRG's CompactFlash slot put the TRGpro so far ahead of the competition in 1999 it was ridiculous. Going to a TRGpro from a Palm IIIx was truly a quantum leap forward.

The dual expansion, VG and screen rotation ability of the ill-fated HandEra 330 were also visionary, but by then HandEra was living on borrowed time.

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Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

Oh darn, cbowers and TVoR got to phoneboy before I could.

I'd still be using my HandEra 330 if the third time I dropped it onto a concrete floor hadn't brought about its demise. (And it survived one drop into a sink of water as well.) With the "unofficial" HandEra OS4 ROM, that puppy was still sweet to use. Not recognizing the huge amount of innovation TRG/HandEra brought to the Palm market is simply ignorant.

"HandEr-I-gonna-break-my-foot-off-in-your-a$$. That's who."

VOR, your first posts made sense, and had something to contribute. Now I'm starting to see why so many people here don't like you.

>>>And considering all the verbal diarrhea spewed by Mike Cane over the years, that's saying a lot.

He just *knows* how to flatter, doesn't he?

>>>Even Mike Cane recognizes the difference in build quality between his CLIE S320 and any Palm released in the past few years.

This is true. Even with the added expense of MStick, if I could get that TE hires screen, fast CPU, and *128MB* of RAM into my S320, it'd be a great device.

BTW, my S320 is about 4 years old now. It could *not* be mistaken for new. The silver has rubbed off one side. I guess this *shows* who *really* uses their CLIE...

Cbowers, you seem to be taking this personally. I didn’t mean to offend you. Do Handeras have feelings?

If my math is right, 230x320 is lower resolution that 320x320. Being able to fit more into that smaller screen due to smaller fonts and layout is great, but not that impressive a development, regardless of the programming difficulty that went into it’s development. Maybe they did have the first landscape by changing the shape of their screen, but Sony has better landscape at 480x320. They achieved their landscape by increasing the scope of the screen rather than reducing it.

“Who cares how important a feature it was to *you*… “No one gives a flip about what *you* think is a valuable feature.”

Good question, but you’re wrong. Any company who wants to make money cares what features are important to me. There are tens of thousands of people like me. I’m the consumer with a large disposable income. I’m the consumer who used to buy a new PDA at least once a year, usually more often. I’m the consumer who was buying $400, $500, and $600+ PDA’s, not just the entry level model. I’m the consumer who, if Palm, Sony, Handera, and other companies had more of, their PDA business would be booming.

Secondly, why should my opinion be any less or more valuable than yours? Is devaluing my opinion your way of making yourself feel more important?

WAVs on a PDA were cool, but who wants that? 40 MB WAV files are too cumbersome. WAV playback isn’t important to the masses. MP3 playback is. That’s what sells devices. Selling devices is what keeps companies producing them.

I guess we’re not seeing eye to eye because you seem to value how visionary or difficult it was to develop new features. I value how useful and desirable these innovations are to mass consumers, not how visionary they are.

When I mention using my UX-50 to post, I’m not bragging about the durability of the UX-50, but it’s capability. Handeras are durable, but can a 4 year old Handera be used to post blogs using a Wi-Fi or Bluetooth connection, (not to mention a dozen other things) out of the box? That’s the point.

I have nothing against you, or Handera. Of course Handera and Sony are in the same PDA coffin. That’s the fact I’m lamenting. No myopia here. “Handera who?” means they left the market much longer ago than Sony. That’s where Sony is headed too, sadly.

Again, have you ever owned a UX-50? I owned a T3 at the same time as my UX-50, and sold it. Where’s the wi-fi? Where’s the hard keyboard? Where’s the crappy camera? ;) (VGA = crappy camera)

Bluetooth gives connectivity to plenty of accessories. A hard connection is so 20th century. I hotsync via wi-fi at home, and Bluetooth at work.

The UX isn’t perfect. A larger screen would have been nice. I thought the absence of portrait mode seemed like a negative, until I got mine and started loving landscape. I have apps that go into portrait mode, but landscape mode is more natural for human field of vision, so I never use portrait. Using the UX in tablet landscape mode is plenty comfy for my hands.

The TH55 is superior? Where’s the keyboard? Where’s the Bluetooth? You are the one who seems to be a Sony nut. How can I be the biggest Sony nut you’ve seen in years? I’ve owned 9 Palm brand PDA’s, two Sony’s, a Compaq, and an HP. (Palms include US Robotics and 3Com) I have a long list of things I hate about Sony. If I’m the biggest Sony nut you’ve met, maybe you’re the one who needs to get out more. :-P

I imagine some of you who are following this thread are somewhat confused. I'll try to explain.

In one of his posts to me, The_Voice_of_Reason said he wasn't a "Clie Nut." Because his responses to me were so rude, I admit I lost my temper and said he was the biggest Clie Nut I had seen in a long time. I immediately regretted this and sent an email to Ryan asking him to remove that part of my response.

phoneboy responded before Ryan had a chance to delete my comments. Much to my surprise phoneboy wrote back in such a way that it made it clear that he and The_Voice_of_Reason were the same person.

I've made it clear who I am. Can you believe anything said by a person who has to create multiple identities to support his position?
.

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Editor-in-Chief
Brighthand.com

Voice will be back later after he gets off his shift at Circus City.

Plonk.

Question for cbowers: (I'm not arguing, just asking you to educate me.)
You say Handera/TRG developed virtual Grafiti. Are you talking about being able to enter text by writing on the screen instead of the silkscreened Grafiti pad, or are you referring to a virtual Grafiti pad replacing the silkscreened Grafiti pad?

I'm just glad I'm not him.:)

The_Voice_of_Reason wrote:

> Have you ever OWNED a UX-50? I'm still using mine after a
> year and a half, and unfortunately I still don't see
> anything on the horizon that can replace it. It is, in
> my opinion, the best Palm PDA released.

The tiny screen crippled the usability of this device, and the switch away from the Sony standard connector meant that too many accessories were unusable with it. Sony's refusal to add both portrait and landscape support meant that table mode was pretty much a waste of time.

If this is the best Palm handheld you've ever seen, you really should get out more. Both the T3 and the TH55 are superior to the UX50.

a) I never said those words you attributed to me.
b) Anyone with a reading comprehension greater than a first grade level can tell that I was quoting someone else. Yet somehow you were confused. Hmmmm...
c) Connectors change all the time. Deal with it. Exhibit 1: Palm.
d) Most people that actually USE a UX50 for more than the five minutes you were apparently exposed to it don't really miss portrait orientation. (Do you routinely change your PC monitor to "portrait" mode? Judging by the intelligence of your posts here, I suspect the answer may be "Yes"...)
e) The T3 has horrible quality control and is not a good replacement for ANY decent PDA. I'd rather use one of my ancient TRGpros than than that self-destructing piece of sh1t from Palm.
f) Last time I checked, the TH55 lacked a built in hardware keyboard - one of the main features that sets the UX50 above most other PDAs. Also the non-Euro TH55 lack Bluetooth, which many power users find essential.

If you actually USED PDAs rather than yapping all the time, maybe you might learn something here and stop sounding like an ignoramus. I'm shocked to see what you've written in this thread, but it's good we now know the "real" Ed. Take care, Eddy-poo.

TVoR

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Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************

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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.