Palm Treo 700w Review Highlights
Reviews are starting to pour in on the new Windows Mobile Treo 700w. Most long time Palm OS users are not giving the model high marks for ease of use and are recomending that most stick with the Treo 650. Read on for some of the highlights from David Pogue of the NY Times, Walt Mossberg of the WSJ and others. More...
Walt Mossberg - Wall Street Journal
A New Palm Treo Uses Microsoft's Software, But It Doesn't Beat 650
Despite some nice new features, the Windows Mobile software is still inferior to the Palm software for one-handed use on the go. Its crucial email and phone functions are also weaker. And there's a serious bug in its email software that affects individuals, though not corporate users. So the Treo 700w is neither as easy to use nor as powerful as the Treo 650. In addition, the screen on the 700w offers significantly lower resolution than the screen on the 650, and the new model costs twice as much -- $400 versus $200.
David Pouge - New York Times
A Marriage Not Made in Heaven
The Treo 700W is a Frankensteinian mishmash. Some of its features are so inspired and well executed, you can't help grinning, while others are so clumsy, you smack your forehead.
But considering that Palm's designers once worshipped at the altar of interface excellence, it's a shame that Microsoft's convoluted software has produced such an awkward marriage with the hardware. Longtime Treo fans, in particular, will be absolutely baffled by the new software layout.
Then again, the 700W wasn't built for longtime Treo fans (who, in any case, can still buy the older 650 model). It was built for corporate buyers, whose top priorities may not include providing the most pleasurable experience possible for the worker bees.
Treo Central - Michael Ducker
Treo 700w Review
The Treo 700w represents two step forwards, and one large step back. That said, it is clear to me that net net, the Treo 700w offers significant hardware (EVDO) and software improvements (Today Screen, Email, Multimedia) over the Treo 650. It is an excellent Windows Mobile device, perhaps the best that has ever been produced. Windows Mobile users will love it, IT departments who only use Windows will love it, but Palm users may want to stick to their current Treo 650.
Treonauts has 3 parts of its review up now. They are taking a close look at the software of the device and how it stacks up against the Treo 650.
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RE: Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
true, but:
1. people will buy it en masse anyway.
2. it will only get better and better.
RE: Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
If the 700w is patched & supported with the same zeal that the 650 has enjoyed then only good can come from it. In the 700w's favor is a MUCH more robust set of hardware specs, so between M$ & Palm working on the software side things might start to work out rather well and the 700w will be a more compelling unit 6 months to a year down the road from where it is today.
On a related note: Did anyone see the news on the Treonauts blog about the impending 650 major firmware update? People are speculating that it's going to add anything from BlackBerry connect, Sprint Vision speed improvements via software, updates to VersaMail & Blazer etc etc. As long as Palm rolls this out to all carriers & flavors of 650, it'll make a nice 1-2-3 punch for '06 (650 update, 700w release, 700p release in a few months).
I STILL think that the 700w is the tip of the iceberg and unless the 700w is a *TOTAL* flop there will be at least one more WinMob Treo and maybe a WinMob PDA yet this year. Garnet will hang in there for the rest of '06 as the bulk of the PDA line and for the lower-end Treos.
P.S. Anyone read today's edition of USA Today? Who wants to bet there is a huge fullpage color ad from Verzon/Palm announcing the 700w? Always an attention getter!
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RE: Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
Is WSJ the only one to review so far?
Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
http://tinyurl.com/art5s
Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
http://www.mobiletechreview.com/Treo-700w.htm
Also, David Pogue reviewed one as did MSNBC's personal tech guy (biased arse).
The reviews seem to run the gamut from "so-so" to "phenomenal"
I am surprised by the hardware specs as well as the claimed speed of the unit (no one's commented on it being laggy in reviews). However, I am surprised that people are still complaing about it being unintuitive,requiring too many keystrokes etc. Wasn't Palm working to SIMPLIFY WinMob?
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RE: Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
windows mobile is not palm os and palm os is not windows mobile.
if you are used to one platform, the other platform will appear counter-intuitive and clunky.
RE: Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
Wasn't Palm working to SIMPLIFY WinMob?
Give them time. There's a pretty big gap to bridge there.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
BUT Mossberg should be pretty up to speed on all things WinMob, right? I suppose he was specifically comparing & contrasting the 700w to the 650 instead of the 700w to OTHER WinMob devices. The later is more what I was wondering--"How much of an improvement is the 700w over older/other/competing WinMob devices as far as navigation and intuitive operation?" I automatically knew/assumed/figured the 650 to be easier to handle in all regards compared to the 700w.
I just wish the impossible would happen (Verizon to get a 700p) but I know that's never going to be the case. Once the Treo 650 is EOL on Verizon that's *it* with POS on their end.
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RE: Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
a 32-valve 4-cylinder engine? lol. Is there such a thing?
RE: Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
Once the Treo 650 is EOL on Verizon that's *it* with POS on their end.
That's not the buzz, though. I'll have to look for a link when I get time, but I thought the word was that Verizon *would* be releasing one of the new Palm OS Treos later this year.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
David;
A link would be greatly appreciated. I wasn't able to turn up anything but the usual Sprint rumors for the 700p. The *new* buzz is apparently that the Hollywood Treo will also be WinMob and then there will be a mildly updated 700w later this year. So that's THREE Winmob Treos this year and just one or two (tops) Palm-based Treos.
Has anyone noticed just how damm good Palm's gotten as of late at keeping things quiet regarding impending hardware launches? Look how the TX was so hazy until a few days before the launch!
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RE: Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
RE: Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
But what really gripes me is the mismatching of Mossberg with the products he reviews. Walt is not a resource for professionals or "prosumers", he's a mainstream reviewer target at casual, far less savvy users. Basically the people who read his columns will NEVER buy a Treo. That being the case, why does WSJ entrust high-tech product reviews to this plodding old fart? You may as well have Martha Stewart review the damn thing.
And as for David Pogue, he's a pill. Pogue is intelligent, a great writer, and has a good sense of humor. His personality shows through in most of his writings, which is a good thing. BUT...the problem is...he's a Mac fanboy. Not just a fanboy, he also happens to be well-known Mac writer who has published many books on Apple, Macintosh, OSX, iPod, etc., which immediately establishes not only a bias, but also a serious conflict of interest. How can he review Windows based products when his bread is buttered by Macintosh? And this conflict of interest (read: bias) shows up time and again in his comments about Windows or Microsoft. Pogue's opinions scarcely look any different from the postings of a common troll on web forums. The only difference is he doesn't spell Microsoft as Micro$oft. Take anything David says about Windows or MS with a grain of salt and a shot of whiskey.
That said, in this particular case, I wouldn't doubt what either of these two are saying is the truth. Especially after using a Windows Mobile 5 device myself. ActiveSync 4 is a friggin disaster. The new UI is a even worse than the previous incarnations. And the low-resolution 240x240 screen is enough to keep many folks (especially Treo 650 users) from "upgrading" to the 700.
Personally, I would wait and see if there will in fact be a Treo 700p. But I'm much more interested in "Lowrider" and "Hollywood." The codenames alone peaks ones interest.
-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
RE: Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
who cares what the Moz thinks.
what does Kirvin think? it's a really a shame he surrendered/deserted and melted away into the desert before the bomb was dropped on him. i would have liked to see him writhe in this POS apologist's nuclear winter.
RE: Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
Funny you should mention that. Back when the 700w was first announced, Jeff believed that "Palm and Verizon will only offer this product direct through business channels only. You will NEVER see a Treo 700w sold in retail stores, because PalmOS is the consumer choice." Or something to that effect. Oddly enough, it seems this Treo will be made widely available after all. Could Jeff have been wrong?
Only Jeff could believe that Palm and Verizon would introduce a flagship mobile device...and then bury it away in back channels, away from human eyes and wallets.
-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
RE: Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
our buddy kirvin! i kind of miss him!
but you know he's here - along with MikeCon - watching and waiting...
hey MikeCon and kirvin - http://henancius.martin-scorsese.net/sounds/casino/peekaboo.wav
RE: Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
Poor guy.
-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
RE: Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
While i certainly agree with yr take on Moss, i have to wonder who the heck u think IS qualified and un-biased to write reviews of Windows Mobile devices? Oh right - Windows users! If you u agree with that notion (only Windows users can review the Treo 700w) then that's just silly. If you do not agree - then i guess that leaves - who? Linux users? Wait! they are biased against MS too!!
Windows Mobile users or Windows users who don't know Palm OS will probably think this is the bee's knees - but they're biased too. All reviews of PDAs ever are biased based on the same factor.
Last I checked, Apple doesn't own - or own a stake in - Palm or Palm OS.
RE: Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
I'm saying that having a BIAS makes you less credible. And it Pogue's case it's not just bias, it's questionable financial interests. He makes his money from book royalties covering Apple products.
There's also a cloud of suspicion hanging over Walt's head as well, as the subject of certain "gifts" from Apple has come up in recent months. Word is that Apple lets old Walty keep those Macs he reviews even though he claims otherwise. This is why I call these reviewers into question. They are not entirely trustworthy sources.
-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
RE: Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
That being the case, why does WSJ entrust high-tech product reviews to this plodding old fart?
Probably because the WSJ is targeted at plodding old farts? Seriously, it's not exactly what you would call a cutting-edge tech market.
That said, in this particular case, I wouldn't doubt what either of these two are saying is the truth. Especially after using a Windows Mobile 5 device myself.
Seriously, am I the ONLY person who is having a good WM5 experience? I've found the UI changes to be quite helpful for one-handed navigation, the speed is better (at least on VGA devices) than SE, and I've only encountered one of the bugs that other people have seen. (The ActiveSync wakeup issue, on the PPC-6700.) I guess it must be one of those situations where the people who have had it go well never felt like standing up and making a speech.
You don't have to have any special credentials to review something, but it is neccessary that you not have an existing bias. If you take somebody who uses every opportunity to attack Microsoft, and ask them their opinion about an MS product, of course you're going to get a negative response. It's not a function of your desktop OS--look at the combination Mac/WM users. It's a function of partisanship.
RE: Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
And that was exactly my point about David Pogue. If you followed his writings as long as I have...you would know what kind of tech writer he really is. Some of has past comments about Microsoft are outright slanderous. Why NYT chose him to review PC related products, I'll never know. But it's like having Phil Schiller (Apple VP of marketing) review Windows products.
> "Seriously, am I the ONLY person who is having a good WM5 experience? I've found the UI changes to be quite helpful for one-handed navigation, the speed is better (at least on VGA devices) than SE, and I've only encountered one of the bugs that other people have seen."
To be fair, I'm using what must be the absolute worst Windows Mobile 5 device available...the iPaq rx1955. This thing has proven to be a steaming litter box of cat excrement. I bought it on the cheap ($230) with the intention (or rather delusion) of using it as a simple WiFi device to toss around for grabbing email and such. Oddly enough, it's good for anything BUT. The Wireless capability is ****. It won't connect to my secured WiFi network at all, and sometimes not even when I OPEN the network up. I keep getting a message saying it cannot find a DHCP server. What's even more frustrating is when, after one or two failed connection attempts...it REMOVES my network profile. Meaning I have to go back add a new network profile, input my WEP keys settings and everything. Nice, huh?
I finally broke down soon after and purchased a TX. Guess what? The TX connects fast and flawlessly. I turn on WiFi (on the TX) it sniffs my network and connects in less than 5 seconds. Boom! I'm online checking my email, etc. The iPaq takes up to 5 minutes to connect, on those rare moments when it actually succeeds of course.
The iPaq also doesn't support softkeys, so they are useless to me. And I hate the way all the tools and options, which were once instantly accessible, are now buried away in submenus. As for one-handed navigation...it simply does not exist on this particular device. Partly for the lack of softkey buttons. The experience might be much improved on WinMob Smartphone device, but on a standard PDA it outright sucks. The piddly QVGA screen is gutting compared to that oh so lovely HVGA Palm resolution, which is why I wouldn't leap at the chance of buying a 700w or any other WinMob device. 480x480 is my demand and nothing less.
-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
RE: Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
Could kirvin look any less distinguished? I certainly imagined him differently.
WM fans love the Treo 700w. Mobiletechreview gave it 4 1/2 stars out of 5. I guess a review should be aimed at the potential users. If you want to convert POS users get a POS user to review it. If you want WM to upgrade to it then get WM fans to review it. I agree Mossberg and friend did not have a good reputation amongst WM users even before this. The only way to counter bias is to get as many reviews as possible, and listen to the reviewers you trust.
Surur
They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
RE: Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
That's EXACTLY how I imagined him looking (but with less hair, actually).
Ditto the comments about the TX's wi-fi prowess. Given Palm's relative lack of experience in all things wi-fi, the TX performs beautifully. I have taken it to be my around-the-town wi-fi hotspot sniffer and it's even enabled me to finally throw out that piece of junk Kensington Wi-FINDER I had been carrying in my laptop bag.
A shame the TX's BT stack is in such shambles, isn't it? More so than anyone else, Palm jumped on the BT bandwagon _early_. They should have an absolutely flawless BT wizard & configuration. I still cannot get over the fact of how the Thinkoutside/Palm keyboard driver keeps turning on BT when I have just an IR keyboard!
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RE: Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
To be fair, I'm using what must be the absolute worst Windows Mobile 5 device available...the iPaq rx1955.
Whoogh. You need to get yourself an Axim.
The iPaq also doesn't support softkeys, so they are useless to me.
Actually, you can remap the app buttons to the softkeys, which is what I do. Yes, you lose any app-launching capability from your front buttons, which is a little annoying, but it does enable one-hand navigation, which is pretty nice.
Surur, what you say about a review being aimed at potential users is pretty on the mark. I would probably have to give the T700 a relatively good score for its combination of form-factor and features, even though I wouldn't want to use one myself. (240 x 240 screen, plus I'm not into converged devices.)
RE: Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
RE: Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
Ditto the comments about the TX's wi-fi prowess. Given Palm's relative lack of experience in all things wi-fi, the TX performs beautifully.
You know, for once I'm actually thinking about picking one of these up for my own use. How's the battery life in actual use?
Damn, one major sticking point is that I'm a major 30wpm Fitaly user and TextWare bailed out of supporting FitalyVirtual on the TX after Palm once again changed the dynamic input area implementation under the hood. It's such a shame.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
I gave the PPC-6700 two weeks of my time and then returned it. I really wanted to like it, but I didn't. I even thought about keeping it simply for the sake of having a device to aid me in learning .NET programming so that I could write some new shareware apps to improve the WM5 experience, but I needed something that worked well for my daily usage and decided to switch back to my Treo 650.
The Palm-developed usability-focused applets are great, but they're akin to putting a gold ring in a pig's ear. Windows Mobile enjoys some fundamental usability flaws that cannot be overcome by add-on software. Other usability issues can be, however. The bottom line is that unless and until Access/PalmSource get their act together or some unheard-of makes their presence known, WM5 looks to be what we have to work with. Like it or lump it.
http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -
RE: Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
If I was going to buy a WM device I certainly wouldn't buy it from palm. Actually if I had any option of someone else to buy a palm phone from I would probably buy it from them. I think anyone who buys this thing is a fool. There's much better WM solutions out there. The question is really just whether you can stand WM. I can't.
But, yeah, IT departments will probably still shove them down people's throats. Damn IT departments.
RE: Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
I was going to let this slide, but:
Re: Jeff Kirvin:
First, I believe he said that the 700w would be marketed to corporate IT and would probably be in the corporate channel first, not that consumers could not get them.
Second, the picture in question was submitted for a contest put on by Zodiac. Also, Jeff has lost weight.
Third, as a practical matter, the fact that Palm is selling a WM device is just giving a segment of your market what they ask for. It was very interesting to note that Gates put a fair amount of his Bill Clintonesq (read LONG -the speech anyway) CES keynote on the WM Treo.
Finally, in the end so what if Access/PalmSource EOLs Garnet? We used to use CP/M, then there was DOS, then Windows. The average end user does not really care whats under the hood, they care if it does the job. Palm will have the "Palm OS" if for no other reason than to keep its independence from Microsoft.
"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill
Perverted.
Palm m125 December 25, 2002 to March 24 2004 > palmOne Zire 71 March 24, 2004 to March 31, 2005. Tapwave Zodiac 1 April 18, 2005 to November 2, 2005 > palmOne Zire 72 November 2, 2005 to present
RE: Perverted.
No MikeCane....No Kirvin...No Marty Fouts...No Voice...what is the reason for the dearth of comments by the "names" here on PIC during this WATERSHED event???
On a related note, the discussion so far seems to be moving merrily along and filled with some good insight and thoughtful commentary. Let's keep it up!
P.S. Is block character recongition (aka GRAFFITI 1) still present in the Treo or did Palm somehow armtwist M$ into removing it?
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RE: Perverted.
In all of this I just have to ask...where is TVoR and his/her wit/wisdom/insight/wry commentary/barbs?
...
On a related note, the discussion so far seems to be moving merrily along and filled with some good insight and thoughtful commentary.
"On a related note...." I love it. Isn't the presence of TVoR in a thread almost always the thing that brings any thoughtful commentary to a grinding halt?
Be honest, now: when was the last time you had any "wisdom" or "insight" from TVoR? Surely you've been around the block enough to realize that only "voice" he hears is in his head. Half the stuff he posts here would be considered by a qualified professional to be a cry for help, and the rest is just grandstanding, not anything you could call analysis or commentary. He's a bright guy as most paranoid schizophrenics are, and he's probably blessed with a supportive family to be able to function as well as he does, but don't kid yourself about his contributions here being anything more than "color."
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Perverted.
-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
RE: Perverted.
Yeah, I read Mike's "rantings of a madman" Nokia blog a while back.
Kent;
Have YOU personally started to lose interest in POS?
Show of hands, anyone?
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Mossberg: 700w stinks up the room
Despite some nice new features, the Windows Mobile software is still inferior to the Palm software for one-handed use on the go. Its crucial email and phone functions are also weaker. And there's a serious bug in its email software that affects individuals, though not corporate users. So the Treo 700w is neither as easy to use nor as powerful as the Treo 650. In addition, the screen on the 700w offers significantly lower resolution than the screen on the 650, and the new model costs twice as much -- $400 versus $200.
For individual users, the main advantage of the new Treo 700w is that it is the first Treo to work on Verizon's high-speed EV-DO network. That network delivers data speeds that rival those of home DSL lines. But the speed advantage will be short-lived, because I expect to see a Palm-based Treo in coming months that can also use the EV-DO network ... The Treo 700w will appeal to some Windows Mobile fans, and to some corporate IT staffs. But for everyone else, I advise sticking with the Palm-based Treos.
Will the 700w turn out to be Palm's ROKR: the most anticipated flop of the year?
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog