Mossberg Compares the Q and Treo 700p
Walt Mossberg, the Wall Street Journal's personal technology reviewer, is widely regarded as a huge fan of Palm's Treo line. Walt recently put two smartphone heavyweights to the test: Motorola's new Windows Mobile Q, available exclusively on Verizon and Palm's Treo 700p, available on both Sprint and Verizon. Despite the Q coming in with sleek Razr-like styling cues and an astounding low price ($200 w/ 2-year contract), He still gives the nod to the $400 Treo 700p. The full article goes over the two smartphones and illustrates just how dissimilar these two competitors actually are.
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RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
With the initial reviews giving the Q rather mediocre scores (at best), my fears are quelled a bit. But that still does not to address TVoR's points that Palm's products are hideously overpriced and look like something from 1999.
For the record, the Q @ Verizon (web & retail) is $200 w/ 2 year contract. The Verizon Blackberries are now $200 to $300 w/ contract.
And Verizon's in-store price (as of this past Monday the 5th) of the 700W & 700P is a jaw-dropping $500 w/ 2-year contract!!!!!!
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
Great article here:
RAZR'S edge
How a team of engineers and designers defied Motorola's own rules to create the cellphone that revived their company.
by Adam Lashinsky, FORTUNE Magazine
June 8, 2006: 9:44 AM EDT
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/06/12/8379239/index.htm
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
"We'll sell more RAZRs this year than Apple will iPods."
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
With the initial reviews giving the Q rather mediocre scores (at best), my fears are quelled a bit. But that still does not to address TVoR's points that Palm's products are hideously overpriced and look like something from 1999.
For the record, the Q @ Verizon (web & retail) is $200 w/ 2 year contract. The Verizon Blackberries are now $200 to $300 w/ contract.
And Verizon's in-store price (as of this past Monday the 5th) of the 700W & 700P is a jaw-dropping $500 w/ 2-year contract!!!!!!
While Motorola's Q isn't exactly a great smartphone, how long until other manufacturers figure out how to make a good, cheap smartphone? Sony Ericsson and Nokia are now getting VERY close. Palm will soon find out how well $500 Treos will compete with $100 - $300 offerings from the competition.
Greed is Bad, Mr. Colligan.
TVoR
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
Wow, that is a $500 downpayment, with $110/month for 24 months. Are AC and and side airbags included with this lease?
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
Yes its bigger, and fatter, this allows a great battery. I would say the Q and others like it are flimsy. Mossberg seemed to love the Treo as well, even though its bigger, and costs 2x as much, it still wins out. Did you even read the whole article to find out why?
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
Didn't everybody ask this question 2 years ago? The answer is apparently - 'a long long time'.
Sure they are getting the cheap part right - but i am still amazed at how long it takes these global beomoths to get the 'good' part down.
Its really the same as with the Blackberrys and their push-email experience. I think most people also expected Windows Mobile, Palm, Symbian devices (Nokia), to clean RIMs clock years ago as well. And here we are in 2006 - and i'll be the first to admit that i could never ever have imagined how bad a job all the 'big' companies would do at beating out RIM. The treo comes closest, and with bbconnect push capabilities, it is IMHO a much better device.
People are willing to pay a premium for a better experience. Yeah - it feels like rape to me. But Palms strategy has worked well for them these last 2 years with the Treo. I think they know they have to go cheap and they have announced that they intend to release a low-end model. In the meantime - it's hard to blame them for taking in the cash when people are willing to pay and the competition fails (again and again) to step up.
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
Didn't everybody ask this question 2 years ago? The answer is apparently - 'a long long time'.
Sure they are getting the cheap part right - but i am still amazed at how long it takes these global beomoths to get the 'good' part down.
While I'm surprised that no-one has yet beat Handspring's 3 year old Treo 600 design, I also realize that it's only a matter of time before one of the Big Boys (or a company like HTC) releases a smaller, lighter, better-built, cheaper smartphone and immediately swipes Palm's marketshare. Consumers are not loyal and Palm is doing everything possible to make it an easy decision for consumers to jump off the bandwagon.
Samsung came close to the perfect smartphone with the i500. The i550 would have been the new ideal had it not been spurned by the dumba$$es at Sprint.
TVoR
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
While even Blackberry is trying to move into a larger market.
Palm's market share lasts exactly as long as they can convince those serious enterprise customers that the feature set on the Treo is enough better to justify the higher cost.
The indication is that the competition is dropping price and adding feature set at a much faster rate than Palm.
This is a downward spiral. The smaller your relative market share, the less money you have for R&D, the longer it takes you to get out a competitive process, and the farther you fall behind.
May You Live in Interesting Times
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
Actually, as far as I know Palm has made no official confirmation of a low end device. All the "Lowrider" talk is just rumor. They haven't denied it either, but then, they usually don't.
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
While even Blackberry is trying to move into a larger market.
Palm's market share lasts exactly as long as they can convince those serious enterprise customers that the feature set on the Treo is enough better to justify the higher cost.
The indication is that the competition is dropping price and adding feature set at a much faster rate than Palm.
This is a downward spiral. The smaller your relative market share, the less money you have for R&D, the longer it takes you to get out a competitive process, and the farther you fall behind.
Precisely. It's amazing that most people still don't seem to understand this. While I'm shocked that we have yet to see a "Treo killer", in the end the competition might only need to undercut palm on PRICE. If enough people stop buying expensive Treos, where is Palm's revenue source. Things will snowball quickly on Redink Mountain and I expect Chateau Colligan (sitting oblivious in the valley below) will be obliterated quickly.
Palm's "R&D" in the past 3 years has NOTHING to show for itself - this company is just living off the Handspring Treo 600 design. But if they keep riding + beating that broken down old Treo 600 nag, eventually it will collapse and end up in the glue factory.
The Treo Franchaise is slowly circling the toilet...
TVoR
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
It's easier to cede the "enterprise" market to Palm/RIM and go after the much larger, more lucrative consumer market.
This, by the way, is why ALP will eventually see the light of day, because it is going to be effective in the mid-level phone market in Asia, where CMS is already playing.
May You Live in Interesting Times
The Treo Killers kill with 1000 papercuts
It's easier to cede the "enterprise" market to Palm/RIM and go after the much larger, more lucrative consumer market.
This, by the way, is why ALP will eventually see the light of day, because it is going to be effective in the mid-level phone market in Asia, where CMS is already playing.
Marty, you still don't understand what a "Treo Killer" needs to do in order to accomplish its mission. Any device that offers the core subset of Treo features needed by individuals + businesses while undercutting Treos in price + offering better reliability/build quality/stability/voice quality will quickly siphon customers from Palm's pool of Treo customers. It's not necessary (or even desirable) for a "Treo Killer" to compete with the Treo feature for feature.
Furthermore, with Windows Mobile now sporting free "push" email and Palm still lacking an integrated push email solution, there's zero possibility that anyone's about to roll over and "cede the "enterprise" market to Palm/RIM". It's just too easy to leverage the Microsoft name to carve out a healthy chunk of the business market from Palm and RIM. Push email for the common workers, all for "free". Who could resist?
Access' VaporOS is a long way off and PalmOS 5 cannot be hacked anymore without a significant investment in time + codemonkey hours by Palm. Not a good idea, especially for a company that does not own the OS. Palm's marketshare is about to evaporate as quickly as a Vaporware Springboard module in the morning sun. Nokia et. al. will be in full Take No Prisoners™ mode when their new phones arrive later this year. Every sale they steal from Palm reduces Palm's profits and accelerates Palm's spiral into oblivion (bankruptcy).
TVoR
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
May You Live in Interesting Times
You still don't understand, Grasshopper.
With hundreds of millions of personal cellphones being sold every year (probably close to 1 BILLION in 2006), of course the major handset manufacturers could focus solely on the consumer market and still do well. But why would they want to ignore the enterprise market? Why throw away a lucrative sideline when you already have a product businesses want? Ignoring enterprise would be akin to an auto manufacturer refusing to sell vehicles (at a premium) to a car rental company or any other bulk purchaser of its vehicles.
"Smartphone" will soon be a redundant term, since all phones will eventually ship with the kind of features seen on today's smartphones. Any manufacturer that ignores business users is throwing away easy money. At the same time, any manufacturer thinking they can gear themselves to just business users is deceiving themselves. (The only reason why RIM is still around in 2006 is the spectacular failure of Microsoft and Palm to capitalize on their respective platform's ability to handle email.) The key is making the user experience (individual and business) as painless and turnkey as possible.
Palm has shown itself incapable of advancing the few original ideas it has come up with. Even if Palm had competent leadership (it doesn't) it would only have been a matter of time before it was crushed by the likes of Nokia and Motorola.
TVoR
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
Which is why moto doesn't need to do anything special for business users. When the moto phones are ubiquitous, businesses will realize that they can get by without the extra features.
why put in the extra work to add the features when you can live off the larger market and eventually force the business user to come to you?
May You Live in Interesting Times
It makes good sense
"Actually, as far as I know Palm has made no official confirmation of a low end device. All the "Lowrider" talk is just rumor."
For now. But I'm sure that Palm see the obvious need for a cheaper, low-end Treo to compete with phones like the Q. A "Lowrider" is simply common sense, which is why I firmly believe the rumours are true. The real question will be whether it will be able to stop the big phone makers from eating Palm's lunch.
While I hesitate to be as blindly faithful as Sagio, a correctly designed Lowrider could be a very hot consumer item.
It's not all doom and gloom! Yet.
This sig is a placeholder till I come up with something good
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
You're not making sense, Marty. Any company that can establish itself NOW as a business email solution stands to make a killing, since RIM is currently the only (main) game in town. Steal Blackberry's thunder and become the de facto standard (get mindshare in the business world) and watch the profits roll in year after year. Look at how much RIM is raking in with its crappy hardware, uber-expensive software and perpetual support costs. That could have been money going to Palm (or Microsoft licensees) if only they got their act together.
NOW is the time to milk businesses for all they're worth by getting in EARLY and providing them a turnkey solution that (slightly) undercuts RIM's extravagant pricing. Wait much longer and the enterprise pie will have to be shared between dozens of hungry handset manufacturers, all providing commodity-priced devices that hook into a standardized server.
TVoR
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
Correction: "a correctly designed Lowrider would have been a very hot consumer item in 2004. Palm could have become a MAJOR handset supplier if only they had any corporate leadership. Imagine how many people would have been willing to buy a 3 - 4 ounce traditional form factor cellphone that also happened to run PalmOS. Imagine the boost these sales would have given to the currently moribund Palm Economy. Pathetic.
It's not all doom and gloom! Yet.
Yes. Nagel said we will be seeing several Cobalt smartphones released in 2005. I KNOW they'll be here soon...
TVoR
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
Obviously your experience with the company is telling you otherwise, but it still seems too early to me to be writing Palm's obituary.
This sig is a placeholder till I come up with something good
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
TVoR, what was applicable in 2004 that isn't in 2006? Obviously there's increased competition, but it will mean sweet dick all if the Lowrider is a great product.
Because in 2006 (at least in Europe) the consumer can get "dumb" mobiles from most manufacturers which (with the exception of a qwerty keyboard) have features and specifications superior to the 700p. The European carriers provide these handsets for free or with heavy carrier subsidy (conditional upon 12 month or 18 month contract naturally). Even without any carrier subsidy some of these phones are cheaper than a Treo 650.
Give yourself an education and visit www.expansys.com for what you can buy in the UK and Europe today.
So, for the Lowrider to be a "great product" for the consumer market it'll have to have more features than the Treo 700p yet sell at a third of its price, otherwise it'll be blown out of the water faster than a raft struck by a cruise missile.
It'll be astounding if Palm can rise up to this challenge. If Lowrider is anything less then the squeamish had better look away as the bears of Nokia, Motorola and Samsung will savagely maul Palm's Lowrider puppy in the consumer market.
"All but the hard hearted man must be torn with pity for this pathetic dilemma of the rich man, who has to keep the poor man just stout enough to do the work and just thin enough to have to do it."
GK Chesterton - Utopia of Usurers, 1917
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
And THAT is what PALM has to best - and there ain't no way they can, IMHO, due to lack of "size" - Motorola can sell the Q for less than they make it since they are so vast the Q is almost an insignificant part of their revenue stream - while with the TREOs - well, they're the ONLY revenue stream PALM has, eh?
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
Q = $199
Treo 650 = $199 on Verizon, $99 on Earthlink.
.... Did I miss something?
This sig is a placeholder till I come up with something good
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
Lol. Name three.
This sig is a placeholder till I come up with something good
Be careful what you ask for, freak!
Lol. Name three.
From www.expansys.com and www.orange.co.uk:
Nokia N91 - 4GB of storage, 2 Megapixel camera, EDGE, 3G and wifi but look no antenna and not the size of a brick!
Orange M5000 (rebadged HTC) - has less memory than the Treo 700p but has everything else it plus 3G and wifi!
Motorola RAZR V3x - a RAZR but with 2 Megapixel camera and 3G.
plus many consumer handsets which come with a minimum of 2 megapixel cameras from Sony Ericsson, Samsung, Motorola, Nokia etc which are all just as capable of handling MP3s and email.
Besides, the most current GSM Treo is the 650 which is blown out of the water by many consumer handsets available today in the UK yet that is currently Palm's premium European smartphone!
Judging from it's lack of speed in the past - it took 6 months for the GSM Treo 650 to arrive in Europe - by the time a new GSM Treo arrives the other manufacturers will have something faster, better and cheaper. If you want to see what'll be hitting the scene within the next three months just visit www.mobileburn.com; Palm execs thinking a low feature Palm Lowrider will be a great product for the consumer market had better have a change of underwear to hand!
Palm MAULED by Nokia. Film at 11.
Palm has taken 3 YEARS to go from the Treo 600 to the 700p. And what was added in that time? Bluetooth, a better screen and a little more memory (let's be honest now) - features that should have been part of the original Treo 600 from Day 1 if only Handspring hadn't been broke. Of course, several apps are now brutally, savagely broken by the Treo 700p, so are the Treo 700 "advances" really worth it?
Major handset manufacturers have design cycles that produce new, improved models every 6 - 12 months. Palm is unable (or unwilling) to innovate at that pace and is therefore being left behind in the dust. Once passed, they will simply continue to fall further + further behind the cutting edge in terms of features, until they simply no longer matter. And since carriers are Palm's new masters, once carriers start sourcing ALL of their smartphones from the competition, Palm is screwed. Those looking for PalmOS apps on good, inexpensive hardware will be better off just buying a copy of StyleTap Platform and a next-generation Windows phone.
Price + lack of control over the OS are the keys to Palm's demise. Go to Sony Ericsson's or Nokia's websites and behold how advanced cellphones have become in 2006, Grasshopper. Palm can't beat these companies in engineering, design cycles or price, while at the same time, PalmOS (previously Palm's ace in the hole) has become irrelevant.
With Palm now completely dependent on revenues from carriers + Treos to survive, as soon as profits are squeezed by competition from the major handset manufacturers, Palm has NOTHING to fall back on. Perhaps they'll figure out a way to survive by becoming a Boutique Brand™ - like (Cr)Apple - but I doubt it.
Even Poor Old Marty Fouts is starting to get it now: Nokia et. al. don't fcuk around. Cellphones are about to become the most important piece of electronics in the lives of consumers (voice + email communication, photography, Internet, contact management, music, TV, video) and will soon be replacing numerous other categories of electronics (standalone digital cameras and MP3 players will be among the first to feel the heat). Palm could have been a major player in this cellphone-centric future, but they blew it. Big time. Oh well.
TVoR
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
> produce new, improved models every 6 - 12 months...
Nokia introduces a new phone very 9 days.
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
> produce new, improved models every 6 - 12 months...
Nokia introduces a new phone very 9 days.
;-O
More like every 9 seconds. Note: I did try to qualify their release schedule by saying "new, improved phone...". Most new models coming out are incremental upgrades or cosmetic changes, but at least once or twice a year the big handset manufacturers come up with impressive, completely new releases. Historically, Palm has come up with significant new designs every 3 years or so (Pilot 1000, Palm V, Tungsten T3. If it's planning on competing with Nokia, Sony Ericsson, Samsung, Motorola, LG, etc., that's just not gonna cut it anymore.
TVoR
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
I now accept your argument that competitors will be able to undercut Palm. I don't accept that they're just going to roll over and die, however.
As always, I remain optimistic. As far as I'm concerned, it ain't over until Palm is bankrupt. ;)
This sig is a placeholder till I come up with something good
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
Okay, the Nokia is pretty cool. The other two weren't all that impressive; the Orange is uglyThere are many who feel that the Treo with its antenna isn't a pretty boy either: can you see any other phones on the European market with external antenna?
and the RAZR is the most overrated phone on the market.When you compare the Motorola V3x to the Treo 650, which is the latest Palm smartphone in Europe, the V3x comes with more user memory (64MB), two cameras (one 2 megapixel & one for videoconferencing) and 3G yet you describe it as overrated?!
3G Treos are on the way, and you can add Wi-Fi to the Windows ones via SDIO, so I don't see that as a major sticking point anymore.The only way you can add wi-fi to the Palm Treos is by using a bulky sled at a time when even printers and digital cameras are now available with built-in wi-fi.
...I don't accept that they're just going to roll over and die
If Palm takes the same amount of time incorporating 3G into a Treo as it did Bluetooth, it may as well roll over and die - the graveyard is already occupied by those companies slaughtered in the mobile market: Panasonic, Siemens and even Ericsson. Pray that Nokia and Motorola undertakers haven't already taken Palm's measurement for its casket.
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
Amazing sales.
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
Yep, that's true, which is why I said "you can add Wi-Fi to the *Windows* ones via SDIO".
External antennas don't really bother me. Yes, I'd prefer the Treo had an internal one, but the placement of the antenna is hardly the deciding factor in what makes a great phone. The (alleged) Hollywood will do away with it soon anyways, so it'll be a moot point.
And yes, RAZRs are overrated. Don't get me wrong, they're nice. They're thin, and they have a few cool features. The UI, like that on most mobile phones, sucks dog's balls compared to the ease-of-use you get with a PalmOS Treo. My friends who have one tell me battery life is pretty stinky too. Also, I must admit part of the reason I don't like them is 'cause it seems like *everyone* has one nowadays...
I'm not here to argue, just to say that I'm sure there are lots of other loyal Treo fans like myself who are eagerly awaiting the next iteration, and the one after that, and the one after that. Heck, I know there are, what with all the Treo fansites out there nowadays. So I think it's premature to be hammering the nails into Palm's coffin when they have a winning form factor, when they still have some interesting (rumoured) new products coming, and likely even a new OS.
And FWIW, the Enfora sled isn't all that bad. It's a rather neat solution actually, as it has it's own battery and thus doesn't drain your device as horribly as built-in wi-fi does. Ever used one? (I had the chance to play with one last week. Was very impressed.) Yeah, it adds bulk, but good smartphones and PDAs are all bulky right now anyways.
All my subjective opinion. No need to get cut up about it.
This sig is a placeholder till I come up with something good
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
The Treo 600 launch was September 2003. Three years would be September 2006. The 700p launch was May 2006.
> And what was added in that time? Bluetooth, a better screen
> and a little more memory (let's be honest now) - features that
> should have been part of the original Treo 600 from Day 1 if
> only Handspring hadn't been broke.
The following are Treo 700p improvements over the Treo 600.
* Bluetooth for voice and data
* Twice the screen resolution (320x320 versus 160x160)
* Four times the memory (128MB vs. 32MB RAM)
* Over twice the processor speed (312 Mhz vs 144 Mhz)
* Non-volatile memory (NVRAM)
* Double the camera resolution (1280x1024 vs 640x480)
* Video capture
* Removable battery
* High speed data access (EVDO speeds vs. GPRS speeds)
* Microsoft Exchange integration
TVoR identified the first three in his post. He ignored the last seven.
> Of course, several apps are now brutally, savagely broken by the Treo 700p,
> so are the Treo 700 "advances" really worth it?
TVoR posted no facts to back up his claim of applications that are "brutally, savagely borken" on the 700p.
TVoR was wrong regarding the three year timeline.
TVoR was wrong seven times about the 700p feature set.
TVoR was wrong regarding "broken" applications.
TVoR uses inaccuracies and emotions instead of facts in his arguments.
WHOA, Nelly!!!! (Someone is looking like a fool + it's not me...)
The Treo 600 launch was September 2003. Three years would be September 2006. The 700p launch was May 2006.
Let's see... so the Treo 700p was launched 2 years and 8 months after the Treo 600? Should I break it down to the # of days, hours, minutes and seconds as well? Sheesh. And since we are now in June with no better Treos than the Treo 700p available, it looks like we're at 2 years and 9 months after the Treo 600 with no significantly improved devices available from Palm. I hope you'll find it in your heart to forgive me for rounding this up to "3 YEARS"...
> And what was added in that time? Bluetooth, a better screen
> and a little more memory (let's be honest now) - features that
> should have been part of the original Treo 600 from Day 1 if
> only Handspring hadn't been broke.
The following are Treo 700p improvements over the Treo 600.
* Bluetooth for voice and data
* Twice the screen resolution (320x320 versus 160x160)
* Four times the memory (128MB vs. 32MB RAM)
* Over twice the processor speed (312 Mhz vs 144 Mhz)
* Non-volatile memory (NVRAM)
* Double the camera resolution (1280x1024 vs 640x480)
* Video capture
* Removable battery
* High speed data access (EVDO speeds vs. GPRS speeds)
* Microsoft Exchange integration
TVoR identified the first three in his post. He ignored the last seven.
Bubba, you crack me up. Really. The things you mention only emphasize how pathetically-specced BOTH the Treo 600 and the Treo 700p were.
1) Bluetooth - should have been part of the Treo 600 from Day 1 (was apparently dropped at the last minute).
2) Better screen (shouldn't you say "4 times the screen resolution to make it sound better?) should have been part of the original Treo 600 spec.
3) The increase in memory has gone from "insulting" to "adequate". For a $500 phone, 128 MB is the least we should expect.
4) Processor speed increased from 144 MHz to 312 MHz IN 3 YEARS*??? Wow. I'm impressed. Get serious. When the Treo 600 was specced, they gave it one of the SLOWEST non-adaptive (i.e. non-HHE) CPU of any Palm device being sold. To be honest, I don't think CPU speed really matters on a smartphone as long as it is not noticeably sluggish - my personal smartphone runs a blinding 66 MHz Dragonball processor with 16 megs of RAM and PalmOS 4.1. And STILL kicks the snot out of any Treo out there in terms of build quality, voice quality and reliability.
5) NVRAM is crap and only causes application incompatibilities. A FAR better solution: provide users with a built-in backup application and an $20 SD card
6) The camera resolution (1.3 megapixel) is STILL pathetic. Even basic feature[hoones have much better cameras than the Treo 700p. Some phones are up to 5 megapixels now. 1.3 megapixels would have bee appropriate for a phone released in 2003.
7) Wasn't videocapture possible with previous apps by using 3rd party apps? i.e. it looks like Palm previously was just too LAZY and CHEAP to proovide users with access to features their $500 phones alredy supported! Pathetic.
8) Removable battery should have been specced for the original Treo 600. Is correcting glaring oversights REALLY an "advance"?
9) Hacking EVDO support into FrankenPalmOS is a genuine upgrade which I overlooked. Well done.
10) Microsoft Exchange integration has bee promised for 3 YEARS and only shows up now? Pathetic.
> Of course, several apps are now brutally, savagely broken by the Treo 700p,
> so are the Treo 700 "advances" really worth it?
TVoR posted no facts to back up his claim of applications that are "brutally, savagely borken" on the 700p.
http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=115147
http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=115827
Uninstall Manager
Ms. Pacman
LauncherX
Directory Assistant
Ptunes
MegaLauncher
Call Filter
CardExport2
ZLauncher
mRing
Skinner
Agendus
Profiles
Butler
KeyguardTime+
Do a web search and you'll find a LOT more app that have been wiped out by the Treo 700p. As usual, many developers will go back to the drawing board and spend the time figuring out how to make their apps work with the latest PalmOS 5 hatchet job. But some developers will eventually throw in the towel, with FrankenPalmOS claiming yet another victim. Well done, Palm!
TVoR was wrong regarding the three year timeline.
TVoR was wrong seven times about the 700p feature set.
TVoR was wrong regarding "broken" applications.
TVoR uses inaccuracies and emotions instead of facts in his arguments.
Thanks for showing everyone what a fool you are. (I especially loved the pedantic (pedantical - for DrOpinnion/Jeff Kirvin) comment about the "3 YEARS" it took to try and advance the Treo 600. Yes, I was off by a whopping 3 months. Forgive me, madam.
You got pown3d, Bubba. Have a seat.
TVoR
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
160x160= 25,600 pixels
320x320= 102,400
I also assume the phone works? My 600 is afflicted with an annoying buzz and it is now used for everything except phone, smemwhat ironically, for which I temporarily have a cheap Nokia, while I wait for something...Bell has the 650 for $99, tempting.
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
> Good argument, plus, the screen is actually 4x the resolution:
> 160x160= 25,600 pixels
> 320x320= 102,400
Excellent catch! Thanks, hoodoo.
During the last couple of hours, I thought of two more improvements in the 700p over the 600.
* Multi-connector
* Improved form factor and keyboard layout
TVoR was wrong two more times without saying anything new! Amazing!
RE: Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price
One more biotch for TVoR's list...
Ivan
Try this again - found my copy of 'HTML for Dummies':
The Treo 600 launch was September 2003. Three years would be September 2006. The 700p launch was May 2006.
Let's see... so the Treo 700p was launched 2 years and 8 months after the Treo 600? Should I break it down to the # of days, hours, minutes and seconds as well? Sheesh. And since we are now in June with no better Treos than the Treo 700p available, it looks like we're at 2 years and 9 months after the Treo 600 with no significantly improved devices available from Palm. I hope you'll find it in your heart to forgive me for rounding this up to "3 YEARS"...
> And what was added in that time? Bluetooth, a better screen
> and a little more memory (let's be honest now) - features that
> should have been part of the original Treo 600 from Day 1 if
> only Handspring hadn't been broke.
The following are Treo 700p improvements over the Treo 600.
* Bluetooth for voice and data
* Twice the screen resolution (320x320 versus 160x160)
* Four times the memory (128MB vs. 32MB RAM)
* Over twice the processor speed (312 Mhz vs 144 Mhz)
* Non-volatile memory (NVRAM)
* Double the camera resolution (1280x1024 vs 640x480)
* Video capture
* Removable battery
* High speed data access (EVDO speeds vs. GPRS speeds)
* Microsoft Exchange integration
TVoR identified the first three in his post. He ignored the last seven.
Bubba, you crack me up. Really. The things you mention only emphasize how pathetically-specced BOTH the Treo 600 and the Treo 700p were.
1) Bluetooth - should have been part of the Treo 600 from Day 1 (was apparently dropped at the last minute).
2) Better screen (shouldn't you say "4 times the screen resolution to make it sound better?) should have been part of the original Treo 600 spec.
3) The increase in memory has gone from "insulting" to "adequate". For a $500 phone, 128 MB is the least we should expect.
4) Processor speed increased from 144 MHz to 312 MHz IN 3 YEARS*??? Wow. I'm impressed. Get serious. When the Treo 600 was specced, they gave it one of the SLOWEST non-adaptive (i.e. non-HHE) CPU of any Palm device being sold. To be honest, I don't think CPU speed really matters on a smartphone as long as it is not noticeably sluggish - my personal smartphone runs a blinding 66 MHz Dragonball processor with 16 megs of RAM and PalmOS 4.1. And STILL kicks the snot out of any Treo out there in terms of build quality, voice quality and reliability.
5) NVRAM is crap and only causes application incompatibilities. A FAR better solution: provide users with a built-in backup application and an $20 SD card
6) The camera resolution (1.3 megapixel) is STILL pathetic. Even basic feature[hoones have much better cameras than the Treo 700p. Some phones are up to 5 megapixels now. 1.3 megapixels would have bee appropriate for a phone released in 2003.
7) Wasn't videocapture possible with previous apps by using 3rd party apps? i.e. it looks like Palm previously was just too LAZY and CHEAP to proovide users with access to features their $500 phones alredy supported! Pathetic.
8) Removable battery should have been specced for the original Treo 600. Is correcting glaring oversights REALLY an "advance"?
9) Hacking EVDO support into FrankenPalmOS is a genuine upgrade which I overlooked. Well done.
10) Microsoft Exchange integration has bee promised for 3 YEARS and only shows up now? Pathetic.
> Of course, several apps are now brutally, savagely broken by the Treo 700p,
> so are the Treo 700 "advances" really worth it?
TVoR posted no facts to back up his claim of applications that are "brutally, savagely borken" on the 700p.
http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=115147
http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=115827
Uninstall Manager
Ms. Pacman
LauncherX
Directory Assistant
Ptunes
MegaLauncher
Call Filter
CardExport2
ZLauncher
mRing
Skinner
Agendus
Profiles
Butler
KeyguardTime+
Do a web search and you'll find a LOT more app that have been wiped out by the Treo 700p. As usual, many developers will go back to the drawing board and spend the time figuring out how to make their apps work with the latest PalmOS 5 hatchet job. But some developers will eventually throw in the towel, with FrankenPalmOS claiming yet another victim. Well done, Palm!
TVoR was wrong regarding the three year timeline.
TVoR was wrong seven times about the 700p feature set.
TVoR was wrong regarding "broken" applications.
TVoR uses inaccuracies and emotions instead of facts in his arguments.
Thanks for showing everyone what a fool you are. (I especially loved the pedantic (pedantical - for DrOpinnion/Jeff Kirvin) comment about the "3 YEARS" it took to try and advance the Treo 600. Yes, I was off by a whopping 3 months. Forgive me, madam.
You got pown3d, Bubba. Have a seat.
TVoR
Don't use drugs, Kids.
6) The camera resolution (1.3 megapixel) is STILL pathetic. Even basic featurephones have much better cameras than the Treo 700p. Some phones are up to 5 megapixels now. 1.3 megapixels would have been appropriate for a phone released in 2003.
7) Wasn't videocapture possible with previous Treos by using 3rd party apps? i.e. it looks like Palm previously was just too LAZY and CHEAP to provide users with access to features their $500 phones alredy supported! Pathetic.
* Sorry. I mean "Processor speed increased from 144 MHz to 312 MHz IN 2 years, 9 months and counting"...
TVoR
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Unfortunately, the average Joe cares MOST about looks + price.
Small size, stylish looks, high quality and low price are a lot more important than ultimate functionality. Precisely why I would never give up my Samsung i500 - even if Palm offered me a dozen Treo 700p for free.
Oh well...
TVoR