Palm Product Manager Talks Nova

They can then still worry about doing their own Linux-based system in the future if they really think there's a market opportunity. And the experience with Android, as well as a functioning Linux kernel, should give them a head start.

I don't get what Palm's problem is: they're shipping Windows Mobile, a company that cloned and screwed them over and costs them on every shipment, but they refuse to ship an operating system that costs them nothing in licensing fees?

Well, for starters, you can't "refuse to ship" something that isn't even available yet. But more importantly, selling Windows Mobile devices gives Palm sales opportunities in Microsoft-only IT infrastructures, of which there are many. Android offers no such opportunities.

IMO, it would be stupid for them to go with Android. Outsourcing their primary OS has already proven to be an absolute disaster that left them rudderless for years as they waited for Palmsource to produce something viable. Are we really eager for them to go down that path again?

I'm certainly not. Steady as she goes.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

Of course it's available to manufacturers. Other manufacturers are busy making products.

Android offers no such opportunities.

Android offers the opportunity of an integrated on-line experience. That's the future.

Outsourcing their primary OS has already proven to be an absolute disaster

If they had not sold it off, it would have been just as bad. The problem with PalmOS is that it's an outdated view of what a phone operating system should do.

I'm certainly not. Steady as she goes.

And for me, it doesn't matter how good Nova may be; what matters to me is how well connected the platform is and hope open it is. And there, you can't beat Android: it's going to be integrated with Google's on-line services, yet it's also fully open and easy to program.

I can certainly see why Android would be a win for Google: it's more advertising revenue for them. I can see why it'd be a win for us users: Google offers a wide variety of excellent services they can integrate into an OS, and they certainly understand the "less is more" software philosophy that's so important to handheld design. But what I can't see is how it would be a win for Palm. They would once again lose exclusive control of their software platform, which is what got them into the horrible mess that they're only just beginning to claw their way out of now. And other, bigger manufacturers who choose to use Android have the resources to put out devices with better hardware for less money. So to add any value at all to an Android phone, Palm would have to roll their own exclusive version of it, which defeats the entire purpose.

Palm's future depends on them having their own exclusive OS. They might be able to get by, by licensing other companies' - for awhile. But they're not going to get ahead. Especially not by going with a company whose products are perpetually in beta - cool as they are.

IMO.

Different circumstances. From what I understand, with Cobalt PalmSource tried to do everything in-house. The drivers, the development tools, the kitchen sink. This time around they're on a Linux kernel, they're (probably) using standardised tools etc and more importantly it's all under the one roof again with no stupid corporate shell games being played. (Well, so far as we know.)

What makes you think a proprietary platform is going to work any better the second time around, now that there is even more competition? What killer feature is Palm going to offer that will make users buy a new Palm instead of an iPhone, an N95, or an Android phone?

I recommend Beersie's excellent "Open Secrets" article from '06: http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/8551/palms-open-secrets-exposed/. We know Palm have been working on server-side applications for quite some time. We know that they have the capability to develop a workable Linux OS with features that no one else is bothering with (instant-on and phone integration) as demonstrated by the Foleo (stillborn as it was).

I'd like to turn the question around: what has you so convinced that Palm will be able to stand out from the crowd by getting right in the middle of it? Apple has shown the way: tight integration with software, hardware and services (i.e. iTunes) leads to happier customers and lets them add or remove features at will. No middlemen. Google have demonstrated they'll whore out their services to people regardless of whether or not they're running Android. For instance, Google Maps is available on just about anything nowadays.

Android has buzz, it has the online services, and the guys behind it have a great track record.

Google maps in Beta. Gmail in Beta. Google News in Beta. The list goes on and on and on and on. Already Android has seen delays in getting out the SDK, and all the reports and reviews I've read have been very, very mixed. I think we'll have to agree to disagree here....

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

No. I got that from Google's own logo at the top of the page that proclaims "Google Maps Beta". You're right that Google News is no longer in it though.

But, while you're great on pooh-poohing Android, you're avoiding the real question: what convincing reason do I have as a developer or user to buy a Palm OS Nova over an Apple, Nokia, or Android phone? Nova needs to stand out from all of those, and I don't see how.

Of course you don't. It hasn't even been released yet. We haven't seen anything apart from a few nebulous comments from Palm employees. Palm, on the other hand, are ideally positioned to see how their own product is going and maybe they think they're on to something.

If it made business sense to go with Android, don't you think they would have done it?

And I'm not "pooh-poohing" Android. Like I said, I can see why it works for Google. I can see why it works for people. But it is not an obvious fit for Palm - especially not when they've been working on their own OS for a lot longer than Android has been known about. Why not wait until they show us Nova before you write it off?

The logo at maps.google.com does not say "beta". Wikipedia has the history http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Maps

But it is not an obvious fit for Palm - especially not when they've been working on their own OS for a lot longer than Android has been known about. Why not wait until they show us Nova before you write it off?

There are three actions Palm can take right now: (1) keep working on Nova and don't ship Android, (2) keep working on Nova and ship Android ASAP, (3) or ship Android and abandon Nova.

You're saying they should take action (1), but if I'm right, they are dead.

I'm saying that even if they think that Nova is going to be great, they should take action (2): it means hedging their bets, and any work they need to do on Android is work they need to do for Nova anyway. So, they don't lose anything compared to (1).

And I care (somewhat) simply because I think it would be nice to have another hardware manufacturer in the market and because if Nova fails, Palm will just turn into a Windows-only shop.

It does for me. But now that I think about it, I'm looking at "Google Maps Australia", which is probably where the difference is. Here's a screenshot for you: http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-6/1039114/gm.JPG

But anyways, I should have double-checked that. Apologies. (I'm still right about Gmail though! 1 out of 3 ain't... okay, it's bad. ;) )

There are three actions Palm can take right now: (1) keep working on Nova and don't ship Android, (2) keep working on Nova and ship Android ASAP, (3) or ship Android and abandon Nova.

You're saying they should take action (1), but if I'm right, they are dead.

I'm saying that even if they think that Nova is going to be great, they should take action (2): it means hedging their bets, and any work they need to do on Android is work they need to do for Nova anyway. So, they don't lose anything compared to (1).

Are you kidding? It would be a massive risk. It would split the focus and talent of Palm's engineers just like the Foleo did. Why did Foleo die? Because Palm don't have the resources to support and develop two different operating systems (and management was stupid enough to let them try). You cannot seriously suggest that they should start working on devices with another company's operating system that isn't even finished yet, with an SDK that is still getting regular updates to include features that should have been in there at the start!!

It's nuts! It's crazy talk! etc etc

I again point to the example of Apple. They have their own tightly integrated software-hardware-services combination and it has become a license to print money, not to mention gives their fans regular moments of ecstatic gadget pleasure. That is the experience that Palm should be trying to replicate. Heck, it's the experience that they themselves used to have.

Two questions: If Palm were to adopt Android, what would make you buy their version over anybody else's? And what makes you think Google won't be keen to bring their services to Nova anyway?

lastly, just 'cause i can't help myself...

Huh? Freakout was wrong about those things.

I've lost track of what these "things" are. I was wrong about Google News and Google Maps. But not my underlying point (which I'm retroactively inserting now - oh how I love the Internet! :P) that Google is like a hyperactive child right now, trying to do everything. The only service of theirs that has really hit pay dirt has been search. The rest is still a work-in-progress for them. It's an exciting time to be a user, but not necessarily a customer. Google are looking more and more like they will be the next Microsoft.

Oh, it's great right now, until suddenly one day you wake up and you're doing 100% of your online activities via Google in some way. Heck, that's nearly the case for me today. And it's fine while they're benevolent. But in every fun start-up lurks an evil, hard-ass monopolist prick. They just need enough success to encourage them to rear their heads. With Google the potential for damage is even greater than it was letting MS get to where they are today. They control information. The temptation to change the flow of that information or even its content to their own benefit will eventually be too great, I suspect. Maybe that's a few CEOs and boards down the line. But it'll happen. I'll bet you a case of beer. It's run by humans, after all.

I wouldn't be getting into bed with Google if I was Palm.

As for being wrong about mixed reviews of the SDK: shit, just Google it, man, and you'll turn up a bunch of different reports on it. Many people complained about the first edition and said it lacked many basic tools. Google are updating it, but that has recently been delayed. They had to push back the dates of their developer challenge because of it.

How many are going to be demonstrating Nova?

ALP?

JLM.

And a high-res OLED screen? Hah! All Palm wants to do is sell under-spec'd QWERTY smartphones with SSS (small square screens) in various flavors of "small".

Wouldn't it be grand if Palm COULD release a traditional (read: very media-savvy) PDA/PMP-style device running Nova *FIRST* to make sure that all the kinks were ironed out before sending a Nova smartphone to try and pass the carriers' certification tests? And the sad thing is that there are probably more users willing to pay to be a beta tester of a new OS on a non-mission-critical handheld than there are those who would risk their primary mobile phone on an untested, unproved OS.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

That's true of almost any handheld gadget nowadays. Internet access/integration is no longer optional. It's a necessity if you want to be taken seriously. Of course it will have on-board PIM apps; my guess is that what Maes is talking about here is an easy way to keep your online contact lists in sync with your offline one.

You could also argue that it's the only thing still keeping them afloat in an age where the competition is a lot sexier. People do want simplicity: it's part of the reason the iPhone is kicking every other smartphone's ass in the marketplace. Clean, pretty, simple. It's also why the HTC Touch has done so well. Put a simpler, finger-friendly interface on it and suddenly even WinMob can be a hit.

"Simple, elegant" doesn't have to mean "underpowered".

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680