Comments on: LinuxWorld Hands-On Foleo Demo Video

> ...I can do email.
> I can do wireless web.
> I can do Word/Excel.
> I can LogMeIn to my desktop.

And if you buy, say, an ASUS EEE you can do that and much much more for hundreds of dollars less!

Hmmm....

=========

"LogMeIn Free" is a java app. It runs under a browser. Don't need no stinkin' Fooleo for that.

>I can do email.
I can do wireless web.
I can do Word/Excel.

don't fool yourself into thinking you'll get even close to a PC-comparable experience for these tasks, silly. you'll get a clunky, buggy, slow, crashing, incompatible, uni-tasking, discombobulating, disrupting, frustrating, painful, and overall shitty experience.

you've been warned.

As for "slow": the hands-on vids that have popped up have all shown an impressively snappy response.

It's not meant to be a PC. Although with a stronger software package it could give low-end laptops a good run for their money.

Anyone still care about SeldomVisitor's mendacious spewing here?

Anyone?

Anyone?

Bueller?

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Reality sucks, don't it?

That does seem to be your motto. You should really give it a chance, though. You don't seem to have had much success in convincing people of your FUD: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/8033/#111870

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Reality sucks, don't it?

Maybe, but continuing to avoid it at all costs is not going to help your problem, SV.


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/

Lol!

Interestingly, the "only" strangeness I've had with XP Pro on a PC is the cursor disappearing on occasion on the login screen, disallowing logging in until C-A-D is pressed to bring up the alternate login. I don't believe I've had ANY other full crashes at all.

Ubuntu Linux, however, a pretty much virgin install on a PC, has gone catatonic multiple times (that is, GUI is catatonic - I did not try telneting in, for example, to see if it was otherwise alive), Firefox has exited completely without notice, etc.

So "PC-comparable experience" can run the gamut!.

> ...using the fooleo exclusively for a few days will cure you.

== "...The menus are apparently just alphabetical -- Docs To Go,
== Email, File Manager, etc -- and there doesn't seem to be a
== way to edit the menus, which are flat rather than cascading
== (e.g. the DTG apps aren't in submenus). You can assign
== shortcut keys, though, which is practice are faster to use
== than the trackpoint. What happens after all of the keyboard's
== characters are used up, though, will be interesting to find out..."

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=1329065&postcount=71

two minutes to boot up

Unless he timed that with a stopwatch, I think it may be a little exaggerated. I used to swear my Treo 680 took that long too, until I actually timed it one day. 59 seconds (which is near-unacceptable, considering the 650 was 30). It's the old "watched pot never boils" adage.

Jca,

And I was saying that unless he actually timed it, things can seem to take a lot longer than they actually do. Duh....

freak, admittedly a long reboot time on such a "lightweight" device is not a good sign. We all know you're a foleo apologist. I'll reboot my iphone and let you know how long it takes.

2 minutes is a pretty big exaggeration.

We all know you're a foleo apologist

Lol! No, I'm perfectly capable of being objective. I would not be employed by the site otherwise. I can see that Foleo has an extremely limited software package, a high price tag and meagre hardware specs. It also has a lovely form factor + weight, the concept is intriguing and it's open to third-party devs. Who knows what we'll see developed for it?

Rather than labeling me an apologist, you should label yourself a... what's the opposite of apologist? Critic? I'm not sure that fits - it implies you have more reasoning ability than you actually demonstrate...

In this post:

-- http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/8869/#136144

I mentioned that a fairly virgin install of Ubuntu Linux on an old 600MHz PIII would freeze and be totally unresponsive GUI-wise. To follow up on that, it was also catatonic when attempting to access it via telnet - totally dead requiring hard reboot.

However, there was a bug fix just posted that mentioned disabling the "powernowd" CPU-frequency-changing daemon. I did that and the freeze-on-visit-Engadget went away.

Useful info, perhaps, for those playing with Linux soon with the Google Phone SDK being released Monday!

Nope, it'll be $99.95 in the bargain bin...

What a load of crap. Palm will be dead before Foldeo 2 or 3 sees the light of day.

Palm's not dead yet! See here-> http://bdball.googlepages.com/Palm.jpg

It's just a flesh wound.

I don't know why the Black Knight reminds me so much of Palm.

PDA's Past and Present:
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP110, MP2000, MP2100

Oh no. Mods, please redirect thread to "Rock-Paper-Scissors" before the server bogs down.

Pat Horne

How much does it weigh? How long does the battery last? Will it fit neatly in my backpack with room to spare? How long does it take to boot? How big is the power brick?

Don't get me wrong, it looks great and the price is fantastic. But it's not the same kind of device.

Did you bother to check the rest of the specks on your $499 poster child?

Have you ever run Vista on a Sempron/Celeron CPU. It's not pretty!
Think of XP, it's min spec is a 300Mhz P1 it'll run alright but like a dog and it'll only get worse as you add software.

Now lets look deeper.
OS: “Genuine Windows Vista® Home Basic“. All the recourse hogging of the Premium vision without the pretty GUI to show for it.
Battery: “29 WHr 4-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery”. That gives you about 2hrs as long as it sits there and doesn't even turn the screen saver on.
Screen: 14in. So it's much bigger than the Foleo.
Weight: 6lbs compared to 2.5lbs. That's what I look for in a mobile device. Fat AND heavy.

So we cant do anything about the size and the weight but lets spec this thing up to some thing that can match the Foleo.
Processor: AMD Turion™ 64 X2 Dual-Core Mobile Technology TL-56. A dual core processer is a must have for Vista. +$110
OS: To be fair we'll leave it. The Foleo's OS ain't that pretty.
Screen: yea I saved -$10 on the 14in screen
Battery: Dell claim 5.5hrs out of their 9cell battery but that prob still doesn't take WiFi into account. +$149
Int Sec: McAfee Virus scan plus. Linux can't catch windows viruses. +$79
Office: Office Sml Bus. I would have taken Standard but they didn't give me the choice and Home & Student isn't for business users. +$279
For a grand total of $1106.
And you still aren't getting the auto sync with your Smart phone.

Can everyone please stop saying the Foleo is bad value compared to a budget Note book because they aren't good value they're just CHEAP.

Att Palm:
Foleo = Smartphone companion
T|X = Dumbphone companion
If you think a Foleo will sell and a PDA wont you're out of your mind.
SunGod aka Luigi(AusPUG)

Freakout is right.
The Foleo isn't for people who are happy with their notebooks.
It's for people who are unhappy with their notebooks or happy with their desktops but are forced to carry a notebook for reasons out of their control.

Once the battery is dead on my laptop I'm about ready to put it down anyways and go get some fresh air.

It sounds like you fit into category 1. With instant on and less fuss the Foleo would allow you to get that work done quicker without worrying about when the battery goes flat....

Sorry about that I went into work mode for a sec there.

Att Palm:
Foleo = Smartphone companion
T|X = Dumbphone companion
If you think a Foleo will sell and a PDA wont you're out of your mind.
SunGod aka Luigi(AusPUG)

(Gekko deserves yet another negative reply.)
Didn't you get it in the last round of "gee whiz, I can get a brick of a laptop for cheaper than the Foleo" thread? Hopefully you are just bored and spending yet a little spare time trolling.


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/

It is a fallacious argument comparing the Foleo to a bottom of the range laptop. You need to compare it with the intended customer's first choice.

The sort of person who SHOULD buy something like a Foleo is a student or business-type guy with low tech requirements. The fact is that both these kind of people are currently buying the highest spec laptops they can afford and just using it for email, word processing and *sigh* myspace (it truly is a waste). The fact is the Foleo meets all the needs of certain profile users and more without paying for stuff they'll never ever ever use or understand.

The million dollar question is - will they buy it? Ever been for asked advice from a computer-illiterate about purchasing a laptop? I normally tell them "a $10 calculator will do all you want". But off they go and buy a $3000AU machine.

Personally, I think the Foleo will be perceived by the market as a tech-toy. It may appeal to gadget loving geeks like myself. But Palm have an uphill battle with the general populous. They need to hire Apple's marketing crew - not their tech guys. It's perception that counts.

Well let's hope for Palm's sake that the market thinks as clearly as your Aunt. But I fear it is driven by the same gen y mindset that set aflame the ringtone industry ("$5 per ringtone and 2 ringtones a week? - how could I go wrong?") As someone posted back when Foleo was announced "does Foleo have the cool-factor?"... hmmm...

The price is about what people would be prepared to pay, and the philosophy has merit (easy sync, light, instant on, long battery life, quick access, wireless). I dare say if Apple were releasing an identical product, the "iFoleo" would do very well. But Apple have quite a bit of momentum behind them right now. I don't think Palm will pull it off. We'll soon see.

That having been said, I may buy one myself just for a bit of fun. It looks like one of those things that I will frown upon until I have one, and then swear I can't live without it once I start carrying it around.

>My Aunty Mary is a Senior Lecturer in anthropology at the University of Western Sydney (and a scarily smart lady).

never confuse well educated with smart.

Well...there's "marketing" and there's "marketing".

In a corporation you usually have something like a "marketing" department and a "sales" department. "Marketing" does the "requirements analysis" as WELL as the "advertising", and "sales" does the cold-calling, etc. And, in general, the executive as a whole lead by the CEO does the broader "future markets"-type analysis.

I know I was using this type of definition in my reply to the original "needs marketing" poster.

>How much does it weigh? How long does the battery last? Will it fit neatly in my
>backpack with room to spare? How long does it take to boot? How big is the power
>brick?

>Don't get me wrong, it looks great and the price is fantastic. But it's not the same
>kind of device.

I think with the Foleo, we will need to see how stable and usable the device is, before comparing it with any laptop.

People aren't going to care if it's the "same kind" of device - they'll look to see if it is as capable as a $499 laptop. If it isn't, sales will be light.

I think when Foleo was conceived - years ago - most laptops were over a thousand dollars.

Prices on laptops have dropped to $499 - and for $499 most people would rather buy a laptop than a half-baked foleo.

If Foleo were priced at $99 or even $199, they'd sell tons of them.

hardware specs do matter - when non-tech folks go into a store.

They see a $499 laptop and a $499 foleo. They ask the salesperson, "what's the difference - which is better?"

Most tech folks would go with a laptop - greater functionality- windows compatibility - faster - better expansion capabilities.

The foleo would need to have a spectacular user experience and a lower cost - to really compete.

The form factor and the hardware specs. should have been better thought out.

it's all a moot point anyway because the Fooleo is DOA.

mark my words: DOA.

For me pesonally, anything larger than, say, a LifeDrive falls into the "notebook/laptop" category, regardless of specs/weight/cost. That is, whether it has a 10.2" or a 14.1" or a 15.4" screen, it's too much damm trouble to lug around, especially with the extra gear (mouse, AC adapter, a thumbdrive, a carrying case etc).

And if it's a trip that ABSOLUTELY demands for a laptop, I want the full Wintel experience. I'll certainly carry my dual-core, Vista, 2gb RAM, DVD burnin', webcam integratin', game-playin' "real" laptop and not some toy like a Foleo. Counterstrike or Command & Conquer in a hotel room has to be my reward for lugging around that bulky laptop bag. Solitaire on a Foleo isn't gonna cut it. And, in all seriousness, I usually find the ability to burn DVDs and read a variety of memory card formats an invaluable capability of a fullsized laptop. Heven, I have to resrt to dial-up account occasionally when out in the sticks, mom'n pop hotel, or when at a piece of property with no highspeed access (yes folks, these places still do exist, especially in the south and midwest).

The whole point of a PDA-sized gadget is to avoid the "big laptop type bag" syndrome when traveling. Even in the height of PDA geekiness, I could carry a PDA in my pocket and then pack a small toiletry-sized bag into my luggage containing my digital camera, an SD card case, a folding IR or BT keyboard, Palm/cell/digicam travel chargers and two spare styli. If really traveling light, I could forego most of the above other than the chargers.

I (and many other users) STILL WANT a data-centric, TX-sized device with an integrated data modem (preferably EVDO) and wi-fi. I don't know why this is so difficult for Palm to grasp!

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

>>"If Foleo were priced at $99 or even $199, they'd sell tons of them."
>Duh... What mini-computer wouldn't?

That's my point genius! I don't believe the Foleo provides any real value at a $600 price point - when someone can go and buy a laptop for $499. I feel the Foleo is overpriced and doesn't have a compelling enough design - the BOM for the Foleo can't be more than $150.

These things should be selling for about $300.

For comparison - iphone's BOM is (I think) $250 - and Apple are making about 55% profit - they can do this because the design/features/functionality of the iphone are compelling and provide greater value.

>>"They see a $499 laptop and a $499 foleo. They ask the salesperson, "what's the difference - which is better?""

>I have the feeling that these questions will be few, seeing as:

>1. The Foleo will most likely not even be anywhere near the laptop section, rather next to the Treos or other
>PDAs.

>2. Palm isn't targeting the Foleo as a laptop replacement. This question would be irrelevant and probably
>get the response that "The Foleo is not a laptop."

I hope for your sake you're right - however

#1 - Most stores I've been in have the laptop and pda sections very close together.

#2 - I would agree with your assessment, except Palm gave Foleo a laptop form factor. It will cause comparisons regardless.

> ...to really sell the Fooleo in great volumes..

HA HA HA!

HA HA HA!

HA HA HA!

Oh, my sides hurt!

HA HA HA!

HA HA HA!

Snort!

Giggle.

my prediction is that there will be no long-term retail space for the fooleo. you will have two places to buy it:

1. palm.com
2. palm store/airport store/kiosk

this will not help fooleo sales.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6yDBiuNQcQ

chicken or egg?

imo, palm will never hit critical mass with the fooleo without a strong retail presence.

is circuit city, best buy, staples, et al going to waste precious retail space fon the fooleo for very long if at all?

>>But how do those photos get *in* there?

Well, it has a file system, it has usb, it can handle email attachments - where's the problem?

>>An iPhone has the mail I use built-in and I've already used it at an Apple Store to take a pic of myself and email it to myself.

Sure, but thats an apples and oranges thing. Neither my desktop or laptop have cameras - and that's fine. Where's the full keyboard and usable screen on that iPhone? it doesn't have either. The iPhone is a great device - but it isn't very suited to doing any of the stuff a foleo is designed to do.

For obvious marketing reasons, so as not to draw to many comparisons with a laptop, Palm emphasizes the synchronisation with a smartphone. However, I do not believe for one moment that the foleo is incapable of downloading email without a smartphone.

The smartphone aspect allows it's use as a cellular modem with the Foleo (when wifi is not available), but the Foleo is also wi-fi capable in it's own right. I suspect that the email sysncronisation is not much more than a palm desktop like syncronisation. Email downloaded using wifi on the foleo will be synchronisable with email downloaded on the smartphone.

Finally, even if the above were not the case, and Foleo client software were entirely dependent on the smartphone. This would be one of the first areas to be addressed by developers or enthusiasts.

You all missed the point of my Photos Q. My mind was locked in Sync Mode. Yeah, you could pull them from an SD card. But what about d/ling them? If they are email ATTs, will they plop into that Photo app automagically?

I think with Photos alone, I'd be able to crash this sucker in less than ten minutes...

If Palm dropped the price to $399 -- which is what I think its functional value is equal to in the real world -- I think it'd sell like hotcakes. Even a cranky SOB like me would consider picking one up at that price. But above that? Feh! You can get a bare-bones Raon Everun for a little bit more than Flopeo MSRP and it'd be a hell of a lot more capable.

http://www.dynamism.com/everun/pricing.shtml

> ...Ithink with Photos alone, I'd be able to crash this sucker
> in less than ten minutes...

Lol! Talk about touching a sympathetic nerve!

I just booted my secondary PC because The Kidlet wanted The Fast One Yet Again. That 2nd machine is running ("newly" installed) Ubuntu. I opened only a Firefox window and had three tabs up - probably ALL of them had some sort of Flash on it.

Shut down ONE tab and Poof! - Firefox ingloriously exited completely.

"less than 10 minutes", indeed!

Sheesh.

(obviously almost virgin Ubuntu with the latest Firefox is not ready for prime time - or at least not ready for someone intolerant of such things - such events are now literally expected sometime during EACH powered-on session)

Love you too, Mike.

I just find it absurd that he claims ownership of a virtual conversation on the Internet. Megalomania much? Not to mention hypocritical, given the amount of times he posted worthless "retard" insults in the iPhone editorial comments.

These days they make handy things call bags. You can put them over your shoulder, on your back, on the seat next to you or even leave them nearby in the car. There handy little devices. Try it out sometime.

Besides, this whole notition of modular computing, the best response you've got is to shoot it down citing a belt clip? *sigh*

The restuarant is noisy so you plug in your headphones and listen to the MP3 on your phone

Sounds like someone struggling with their work:life balance. To misquote Timothy Leary, sometimes it's best to turn off, tune in and drop out.

I find it's a struggle enough to find a decent somewhere and something to eat, pay for it then actually eat, nevermind start fiddling with taking a Foleo out of a folio.

"It's not a purse, it's a European carryall!"

"Moral of the story ...whatever your work/life balance is, all your devices should
work with you as a system rather than you conforming to your devices."

Sure, but how could you tell the difference? I mean, this is as meaningless as saying that society should adapt to you, you shouldn't adapt to society.

Take the most basic of technology, the knife or the sword. Anyone can learn to use a knife within a few minutes to slice bread, but to become a master of the sword, to reach a level where you and the sword are one single entity, requires years and years of hard training. That's the key to it. Not untill computers are physically connected to our brains can we talk about technology being adapted to us, but at that time the question of who has adapted to who becomes a meaningless question.

:-)

> ...there doesn't appear to be any seamless integration with
> the Treo or desktop...

Up above I posted a comment that essentially reflected yours; apparently I was typing in mine while you were posting yours - no attempt to duplicate.

> Try thinking outside the box...

Yeah, like this:

== "...So what I want is a large screen PDA with keyboard and
== tapscreen with a DETACHABLE Piggyback phone with a dinky
== screen and standard numeric buttons, etc. Maybe talking
== to each other via Bluetooth or whatever..."

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=219661&postcount=1

or this:

== "...As such, perhaps that "device" mentioned up there will be
== Coming Soon! (albeit maybe not so converged that it's piggybacked...)

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=338530&postcount=9

Giggle.

>>>manbag? nice.

Real men carry bags.

Eejits don't. Because they never heard of books, tech, and fekkin AC adapters...

There you go Seldom Visitor and Gekko. THAT is the kind of thinking I'm talking about.

Let's break the mold of Microsoft's status quo world. Lets get back to the good old days where innovation occurs. Microsoft's vision is annimated icons with new colors.

I give Palm credit for trying to innovate. I agree that the Folio, in terms of innovation, is not enough to get anybody excited.

But if you look at what Palm is trying to do, they are taking a risk and trying to make a device that works in new ways. Yes, you can buy a laptop. But you are missing the point if you keep comparing this to a traditional laptop.

It's not about specifications and simple "capabilities." Its more about doing something BETTER than a standard Microsoft OS.

For me, "Instance On", small size, and seemless connectivity is something that NO Microsoft product can do. Not ONE. Not a single Microsoft product. I've got a small Acer TravelMate C110 which has a 10" screen (that I'm happy with but it's about to die). 2 years ago, I spent $1,400 on it.

The Acer's specs look the same as the Folio for how I use the Acer. (remember, I've got a desktop and work provided laptop that I use for other things.

1. It has wiresless connectivity.
2. I've connecte to my cell phone via bluetooth
3. I can check email (albeit independently of my phone - I can set it up so I can quasi see the same thing as my phone but I only know how to do that because I'm an IT professional. The average person has no chance of this)
4. I can browse the web (after a lenghthy bootup)
5. Costs $1,400 new (but isn't available anymore)
6. Battery currently lasts about 2 hours when new (because this is a small compact unit, battery life suffers.) I can get better batteries but the laptop then weight A LOT more.

If the Acer wasn't about to die, I'd be content with it.

The Folio in comparison:
1. Also has wireless (that I hope works better than Windows)
2. Seemlessly communicates with the Treo rather than doing a manual config and manually "connecting"
3. Checks email seemlessly. What I see on the phone is the same as the Folio.
4. Browsing the internet virtually instantly via wifi or GPRS.
5. Costs less than half the price
6. Battery lasts 2-3 times more without sacrificing size/weight.

It isn't that Folio doesn't do similar things to a laptop ...it's that it does things MUCH better than a laptop ...at least at the things that it does. For me, those things are important. If mobility, ease of use and connectivity is not your most important requirements, then the Folio isn't for you. For me, I highly value those three attributes and no Windows machines come close.

DISCLAIMER: The Folio has to work as advertised. If it doesn't, disregard everything I said. ;)

Gekko,

That is exactly what I want! This is what the lifedrive should've turned into before they scrapped the whole idea and went with a conforming laptop design.

I could see IBM's design connecting via wireless to all the peripherals.

________________________________________
If you feel like you're under control, you're just not going fast enough.

Sorry! Wrong link! This one:

http://tinyurl.com/2mq6fl

Ooooo! Another thumb board! Just what I wanted!! ...

:/

What is wrong with ignoring the status quo? That is where innovation comes from. And before I get a "HOW THE **** IS THE FOLEO INNOVATIVE??!!," think about it. You cannot go from nothing to everything in one step. One must make baby steps (and don't take "baby steps" to mean adding a new feature every two years, that is a nano step) to greatness. Foleo seems to be the first step.

Who said the Foleo was a "Laptop Sized PDA"? Have you even read about the "deep down under" features of the Foleo.

You are equating simple with PDA and complex (or big and clunky) with laptop or "power" (you can thank M$ for this one). Just because something is simple does not mean that it cannot be powerful. And, lower processor speeds do not mean less power as well. Bonehead programmers mean less power.

If your watching the stock market, and the housing collaped and note that consumers are already overwhelmed with a variety of devices, everything, from dumbphones, ipod's gps devices, PMP players, notebooks, bluetooth, WiFi, tivos, the list goes on and one.
My point is: People are going to have less money and unless the device has a "wow" factor are going to be unimpressed by foleo. I have been a early adopter and gadget freak all my life. the foleo has left me very underwhelmed and not very interested.
I think it will even be worse then the Blue-ray HD-dvd, which has so far shown to have a huge lack of interst with consumers. Why is that, lotsa of HD TV sold? Well to most people don't see the need to invest $500 for just a small increment in picture quality and are pretty happy with what they got.
Palm's only chance with this bastard child is if it had given it some wow factor to start off in life.....it basically looks like a plain vanilla notebook nothing special, 5 or 6 apps, most not compatible with windows or OSX.
Another similar example to this is the Segway to which some thought it would radically change transportation as we know it. This device came out 2 years ago and I have never seen an actual segway in use.
I predict the Foleo will fail and at best maybe given away to Iraq army or police, so they can have the kind of computers that US soldiers have.

krosfyah said

Microsoft brainwashed world
.
fullsize Microsoft brainwashed experienceetc etc etc

It seems you're revealing your own dogma. This bashing people over the head for using Microsoft is getting a touch tiresome and won't win people over to a Palm Foleo.

There are plenty of other non Microsoft desktop and smartphone solutions out there if people are tired of them. I for one have the three major systems, Windows, OS X and Linux, each has its own strengths and weaknesses.

For the record my experience is that Windows laptops do get out of suspend a lot faster than the 60 seconds you claim. Apple's Powerbook laptops were pretty much instantly out of sleep. If you were running your browser before sleep then you can get back to browsing within a second. I haven't tried it with the Intel Macbooks but I imagine it's pretty much the same.

I said in an earlier post that it's the software synchronization and not the hardware that makes the Foleo special. Other companies have made hardware similar to the Foleo in the past - remember the Psion netbook/Series 7? If the instant phone syncing idea catches on then it's only a matter of time before other competitors either add the functionality to existing computers or produce cheaper/better versions of the Foleo.

>>>How many of your average consumers out there will find a need to cary another gadget with them, on top of their treo and Ipod,

Wow. Just yesterday on the subway I saw a woman with a Treo. But when it came time to listen to music, she pulled out the (now-discontinued) iPod Mini (mono screen)! So much for all the people who are concerned about "carrying one gadget instead of two."

People apparently are willing to carry two.

Probably more.