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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Palm and Microsoft Announce Windows Mobile TreoPosted By: Ryan on Monday, September 26, 2005 9:25:16 AM
The collaboration gives customers more choices and marks a dedicated effort to deliver one of the world's most innovative smartphone solutions on the software platform favored by many businesses. Treo smartphones combine the hallmark Palm experience of a full-featured mobile phone with email, messaging, web access and organizational software -- in an attractive, compact design. The new Treo smartphone takes advantage of the Windows Mobile 5.0 platform in multiple ways, offering Outlook Mobile, Office Mobile and Internet Explorer Mobile built into the smartphone, as well as direct access to Exchange Server 2003 for mobile access to information. In addition, the new Treo will operate with Verizon Wireless' BroadbandAccess service, the largest high-speed wireless broadband network in the United States. Verizon Wireless expects the new Treo smartphone to be available to its customers in early 2006. "We've long believed that the future of personal computing is mobile computing, and our collaboration with Microsoft is a historic step in delivering that vision to a larger market," said Colligan. "We're confident customers will see a differentiated smartphone that delivers our world-class usability on Microsoft's flexible and robust Windows Mobile operating system. We collaborated with Verizon Wireless first because of its high-speed wireless network and growing footprint of BroadbandAccess cities."
The Treo smartphone on Windows Mobile is a CDMA-based phone targeted for the U.S. market and takes advantage of Verizon Wireless' BroadbandAccess service on its EV-DO network with download speeds averaging 400-700 kilobits per second. Today, about half the U.S. population, in more than 84 metropolitan areas and in hundreds of airports across the nation, can access download speeds comparable to DSL or cable-modem connections. Verizon Wireless has been expanding its BroadbandAccess service area steadily since its debut in the fall of 2003. The new Treo smartphone is powered by an Intel processor and joins Palm's award-winning family of Treo smartphones, which includes the Treo 600 and Treo 650, both offered today to Verizon Wireless customers.
The Palm Experience on Windows Mobile
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Article Comments
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scoT1753 @ 9/26/2005 12:41:17 PM #
Wow RE: UnbelievableSeldomVisitor @ 9/26/2005 1:19:07 PM #
A questioner snuck in the 240x240 resolution of the announced device ina question to Bill Gates. That resolution comment was not "corrected" by Gates or Colligan. RE: UnbelievableCaptain Hair @ 9/26/2005 3:56:38 PM #
I can't say that I'm surprised, we all saw it coming. Remember when we saw this same HTC Treo running WM so many months ago? And I understand the business sense behind the decision, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. At least this will create more sales for Palm, with monetary support from Microsoft. That means more money to put into R&D. "People who think they're smart annoy those of us who are." RE: Unbelievable
>At least this will create more sales for Palm, with monetary >support from Microsoft. That means more money to put into R&D. What do they need R&D money for? To discover more efficient ways to forward MS specs to HTC for design and manufacturing? Believe it.Snoop_Doggy_Dogg @ 9/26/2005 5:05:23 PM #
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1178056/000119312505190744/dprem14a.htm Background of the Merger
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RE: Unbelievable
WHY! WHY! WHY! WHY THE **** IS PALM POWERING THEIR NEXT DEVICE WITH WINDOWS! *goes into corner and starts rocking, looking crazy* DOWN WITH MICROSOFT! RE: Unbelievable
...because they are acknowledging that they are unable to properly produce a Palm-powered one? RE: Unbelievable
That's a bit unfair, they have produced some very nice ones over the years, but they should have taken a few hints from sony too. (not the memstick though) Where they missed out was the lack of wifi in most of their units when everyone else had it in their whole lineup. The Sky is Falling!! -- NOT!!Palm_Otaku @ 9/27/2005 4:59:48 PM #
DON'T PANIC The announcement is regarding the new licensing partnership. Palm is licensing Windows Mobile for ONE version of the next Treo (the "700w"). When the "700w" is officially released, expect to see a "700p" running PalmOS as well. Palm Inc. is NOT in the process of dropping PalmOS as a platform. Duh. The logic is clear: There is a certain customer segment that is attracted to Windows Mobile, and Palm Inc. is broadening its product portfolio to try to acquire some of these customers. They have gained certain concessions from Microsoft so that they can add features to standard WinMob to differentiate their product vs. their competitors. How this will play out will be interesting to see... (Hopefully we won't see a replay of the Sendo situation from 2003...!) I also believe that the Ed's comment about "no additional platforms in the future" is being misconstrued by some people. While its reasonably safe to assume that there won't be any Symbian licensing announcements, PalmOnLinux is just the next-gen PalmOS. Sorry to interrupt the FUDfest - back to you, Chicken Little. Cheers, Dan
RE: UnbelievableSeldomVisitor @ 9/28/2005 6:25:09 AM #
PALM CEO said "no other operating systems". PalmLinux is another operating system. There is no ambiguity about what is an OS and what is not. PALM has to twiddle coonsiderably low-level OS stuff to get it to work - always has with the TREO line for sure. I'll stick with my interpretation of his remarks. RE: Unbelievable
There is no ambiguity about what is an OS and what is not. Oh don't be dense. So there's no ambiguity about whether he considers Palm OS for Linux to be Palm OS or "another" OS? And your assumption is that Palm just needed to what? Bleed off some excess cash when it licensed the Palm OS through 2009? RE: UnbelievableSeldomVisitor @ 9/28/2005 9:18:20 AM #
Yes, PalmOS for SURE is a VERY different animal from the purported PalmLinux. Are you saying the OS-parts of these are the SAME for Pete's Sake!? If Colligan thinks PalmOS and PalmLinux are just slight variations on PalmOS then PALM is in bigger trouble thaan we suspect! RE: Unbelievable
Yes, PalmOS for SURE is a VERY different animal from the purported PalmLinux. Are you saying the OS-parts of these are the SAME for Pete's Sake!?
Of course not. But you have to admit that there is some ambiguity as to whether "Palm OS" refers to "Palm OS for Linux" or not. Colligan's remark clearly excludes the possibility of Palm doing a Linux phone using the maemo or qTopia APIs, which don't have all the things that make Palm OS familiar (like the applications, PACE, HotSync, Exchange Manager, Palm Desktop, etc etc). But Palm OS for Linux will have all these defining elements, even if the kernel is different. Palm is not going to say they are committed to Palm OS for Linux, because in the terms of their license renewal there is no such commitment implied. Just as they conditioned the collaboration with Microsoft on MS giving them room to innovate on top of the OS, there are clearly conditions for Palm's adoption of Palm OS for Linux (the milestones referred to in the agreement). And even if those conditions are met by PalmSource Palm could still decline to use the new Palm OS. They don't have anything you would call a "plan", then, but for several reasons I think it's reasonable to deduce that they are actively investigating it with significant staff and money. The most reasonable way to reconcile the hiring of all those Linux engineers with Colligan's statement that they are not developing a Linux phone is by recognizing that: (a) Colligan considers Palm OS for Linux to be more "Palm OS" than whatever he means by "Linux" (which by the way is *not* an operating system), and (b) Palm thinks Palm OS for Linux is worth investing some R&D in. Here are how the job descriptions for several positions currently on the Palm site start out: "Linux Engineer, Mobile Handset....As a Linux Engineer, you will play a key role in the architecture, design and implementation of enabling technologies for a new generation of Palm devices." "Senior Linux Software Engineer....As the Senior Software Engineer, you will play a key role in the architecture, design and implementation of enabling technologies for a new generation of Palm devices." Several other positions require "Significant project experience developing software for Palm OS or UNIX/Linux" or 1 year of experience in developing or testing device drivers (Linux preferably) Maybe you can, but I don't know how to make sense of this except to conclude they are actively investigating Palm OS for Linux as a future smartphone platform.
Well, there it is, emblazened on Palm's website: the Windows-based Treo. Can't say this is a bad thing for Palm. It expands their market and reaches business types who use the Windows platform. What I want to know is this: how does this news bode for Palm OS enthusiasts? I've tried Pocket PC, and liked the Palm OS better (not that Pocket PC was bad, though). Splitting Palm into two seperate businesses didn't make a whole lot of sense until this news came out. Is this the end of the Palm OS? At least you get G1 with Pocket PC. Palm helped design WM5! No Linux or Symbian Treo!
From the webcast. They were planning a WM Treo even before WM5, and their engineers apparently worked together. He also denied any Symbian or Linux Treo. Surur RE: The Palm/Windows bastardSeldomVisitor @ 9/26/2005 1:20:21 PM #
> ...Linux Treo... What does this say about The Next Great Thing outta ACCESS/PSRC? RE: The Palm/Windows bastardPermanent4 @ 9/26/2005 1:53:21 PM #
What I want to know is this: how does this news bode for Palm OS enthusiasts? You might as well ask a Yankees fan how he felt about the Red Sox winning the World Series last year. -David
RE: The Palm/Windows bastard
Well, they certainly couldn't be planning another Treo with Garnet. So that leaves... hmmm... How about OS 4.1 with a nice, high-contrast monochrome screen, AA cells and Graffiti 1! Or maybe they renewed their license purely as a sentimental gesture toward PalmSource. Shareholders love that kind of thing. Boy, it's hard to say. RE: The Palm/Windows bastard
Not so. As a developer I find writing applications for Windows Mobile to be faster than C on the Palm. The apps themselves seem to be fuller featured due to the higher level languages I use on WinMob. I dont really care what PDA is on top as long as I can write and sell software for it. RE: The Palm/Windows bastard
DevPOV wrote: Not so. As a developer I find writing applications for Windows Mobile to be faster than C on the Palm. The apps themselves seem to be fuller featured due to the higher level languages I use on WinMob. I dont really care what PDA is on top as long as I can write and sell software for it. Not sure what that was in response to, but I agree that it's faster and easier to develop .NET applications than Palm OS C API apps if you don't have a good bag of tricks already assembled for doing Palm development. If you want a high-level language with object-orientation and good access to the underlying system you should take a look at SuperWaba, though. You can use any Java development environment (like Eclipse) then sell your apps to both Palm and Windows Mobile users (as well as Linux and Symbian Series 80).
RE: The Palm/Windows bastard
DevPOV, From my experiences, the Palm OS constistently wins the best user experience award over Windows Mobile applications. The user interface is the only aspect that truly matters. I am a contractor for a large healthcare technologies company. Our contracting team developed a Palm OS client (CodeWarrior C++) and employees developed the Windows Mobile client (.NET and SQL Server CE) of a handheld application for hospitals. The Palm OS client starts instantaneously, completes form transitions in less than a second, uses custom drawing in table controls to ensure neat row/column displays and fully supports five-way navigation and rectangular (portrait/landscape) screen displays. The Windows Mobile client takes five to ten seconds TO START, completes form transitions in one to five seconds, creates jagged and improperly sized rows and columns in its “automatic” table control and does not support five-way navigation or portrait/landscape screen layouts. However, in the interest of full disclosure, this Palm OS developer of five years started learning Windows Mobile and .NET Compact Framework development last week. After Colligan and company effectively announced the death of the Palm OS today, I have a lot of catching up to do. My first challenge will be making Windows Mobile applications that match or beat the user interface experience and performance of Palm OS applications. It's a tall order... RE: The Palm/Windows bastard
Most of my business customers still prefer Palm OS over Windows Mobile, too (and we give them the choice because we develop on both platforms). And for vertical market applications they don't necessarily go for smartphones over PDAs, either. It's changing, but we still see most of our customers interested in cradle-sync solutions rather than wireless since the ROI from wireless is still not there for so many business applications. So that's two checks against the Windows Mobile Treo with the kind of business clients my company writes custom applications for. The average PIC poster screams that "Palm OS is dead" but what they're really saying is that they think they won't get the Palm OS device that they want in the future. So they project this to the whole diverse market. It's understandable. Relyons, your company's experience with .NET Compact Framework matches mine. .NET is a very productive development environment, but managed code exacts a performance penalty that can be objectionable to people who are used to Palm OS. Of course, the newer Palm devices aren't as fast as they used to be, thanks in large part to Palm's implementation of NVFS. Also I've seen the specs on Windows Mobile 5.0 and it looks like they've done a lot to improve performance of managed code. So unfortunately I don't think snappy performance in business applications is a selling point for Palm OS anymore.
RE: The Palm/Windows bastard
Go to ebay and search the word "SL10." (Why do some people say you can kill two birds with one stone when it's hard enough killing one bird with two stones?) RE: The Palm/Windows bastard
I'm not a developer, but can appreciate the desire to use a more productive programming language. However as an end user, I have lost more sleep dealing with windows issues than anything else in life, including marriage, work, and kids. The last thing I want is to take all that baggage that gives me more headaches than joy, and make it my constant pocket companion. I keep my Palm because it's my friend, not a thorn in the side. That being said, I won't be looking at any WM apps for a long time. RE: The Palm/Windows bastard
The last thing I want is to take all that baggage that gives me more headaches than joy, and make it my constant pocket companion.
You are describing many people's LifeDrive experience. Do you know what the recommended procedure for upgrading to a LifeDrive is. First you need to delete your backup folder, and then install software one at a time, run if for a few days to assess stability, and then add the next piece of software. Rinse and repeat. Also keep a backup of your preference database on a storage card, as these are prone to disappearing. Two weeks later, once you have run out of your return period it will lock up and die. Return your paperweight to Palm. Start over again. Surur
I can't help but feel like this is the beginning of the end for Palm OS. That's too bad... RE: The Beginning of the End
Yes, I agree with you. Farewell all of those years with PalmOS since my USR Personal. I just feel like we were portrayed by Palm. RE: The Beginning of the End
Washington Post Review of WM 5.0
"For now, Palm remains the simpler, faster choice. But if Microsoft keeps plugging away, that won't be the case forever." There still is time for Access to save the platform. Their buyout will let this fight go on for a while longer, I hope. It is this fight (drama sometimes), and the hope for something better that makes following mobile OS world so fun.
SeldomVisitor @ 9/26/2005 1:16:33 PM #
I simply do NOT understand how SUCH an important demonstration could have been allowed to be ANYTHING but ENTIRELY FOOLPROOF scripted! First there is a "connection issue" so the realtime radio part is OVERTLY canned, then ACTUAL phone numbers are one the screens! Unbelievable, even to someone who is an admitted PALM-pessimist (I could NEVER have imagined ANY errors being allowed to crop up). RE: How could the demo have gone wrong?
The connection thing bothered me too. I saw the single dot under the antenna icon and knew there was a problem before he got to the radio demo. As for the numbers, it was to allow them to call/SMS each other on the stage, like Ed's call to the demo guy. I am sure those numbers will be thrown away by the end of the day. It did provide some amusement though to see audience members SMS'ing questions. RE: How could the demo have gone wrong?
>I simply do NOT understand how SUCH an important demonstration >could have been allowed to be ANYTHING but ENTIRELY FOOLPROOF >scripted! Easy, it was running on a modern PalmOne device running a Microsoft operating system. Welcome to the new smartphone market. RE: How could the demo have gone wrong?
"Easy, it was running on a modern PalmOne device running a Microsoft operating system.
Welcome to the new smartphone market." EXACTLY!
The Turtle @ 9/26/2005 1:20:59 PM #
Need a smartphone? From this point on, if you have Mac or Linux you won't! If palm is going to abandon palm os for all it's handhelds, then that makes Linux and Mac users who need PDAs being forced into Windows. Brilliant. I wouldn't have a problem if: 1. ActiveSync comes out for more OSes I don't use Linux or Mac, but I sure don't want to see them die out, neither.
RE: So...
Next year's innovation O' the year on the Palm: MS-DOS! (At least it'll have appropriate RAM to handle it). RE: So...GenericMan @ 9/26/2005 4:05:53 PM #
http://www.markspace.com/missingsync_windowsmobile.php The Missing Sync lets Macs talk to Windows Mobile devices. It's not free, but it reportedly works (and it's actually supported by a company that cares about the Mac platform). RE: So...
Yep, agree with Generic here. I have used Active Sync on an Ipaq I own, from time to time for updates, but MissingSync for PPC on the mac, does all I need on the PPC. And, it will get nothing but better. MarkSpace (missingsync) is totally committed to the mac platform. RE: So...AdamaDBrown @ 9/26/2005 7:13:26 PM #
For syncing a Mac to a WM device, there's also PocketMac as an alternative to MissingSync. RE: So...
If palm is going to abandon palm os for all it's handhelds, then that makes Linux and Mac users who need PDAs being forced into Windows. Brilliant. Palm (formerly PalmOne) isn't the one to blame; PalmSource started the ball rolling by stating Cobalt wouldn't support Mac synchronisation: so if Palm had released a Cobalt powered PDA it wouldn't be able to sync out of the box with a Mac; you'd be in the same position as someone with WinMob where you'd need third party software to sync info between Mac and PDA. I remember Palm (formerly PalmOne) promised to bundle such software with their Cobalt PDAs to enable them to sync with OS X despite PalmSource's lack of effort in the area. Of course we don't have any Cobalt PDAs to see if it would have worked!
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