Comments on: Sony Japan Unveils the Clie PEG-UX50

Sony hasn't published the audio APIs, so there are no third party audio players for OS5 Clies at all. This device looks even more proprietary because of its reliance on a DSP.

Timing is everything. While I wait impatiently for the Garmin iQue, I may funnel the bucks into the clie instead. I have a clie nr70v and love it. Well, it can't play dvd's but that's okay.

I may buy it. I'd like a full size XT keyboard option. Don't think I need portrait, do I? What's the big deal about portrait? Anyway, don't know for sure until I get some hands-on use. May also get the Garmin for the Honda Pilot. Would also like to get a look at the TapWave thing.

Thanks, robrecht

>>>What's the big deal about portrait?

I can't believe you said that. Shall we go back to the days of mono PDAs and "What's the big deal about color?"

And reigndub is so *obviously* ska. He never learns. GO AWAY!

The UX is also a great deal smaller than the NX80.

I'm going to buy it; I like the built-in WiFi.

On another note, I think this device proves that there will always be people who complain about Sony's efforts... They've given you:

-closed Tungsten T-sized PDA
-Landscape screen layout
-Landscape keyboard layout (meaning larger, more comfortable buttons)
-Built-in dual wireless

...yet we still have people complaining about one thing or another. It may not be perfect, but it certainly sounds more 'perfect' than anything else on the market.

Will I buy it? Hell no! This thing once again represents everything I hate about Sony, plus they made it UGLY!! I thought Sony was good on design, but this thing is pitiful. Plus, there is still only 16 MB available. Sony must be drunk, stoned, stupid, or all three. Is their R&D spent at brothels or something?

Put in 64 MB, a normal freakin' 400 MHz X-Scale, make the body look good, put in a better camera, a CF slot, and put it at $700. These requests are very reasonable. And what about a TG50 with VG? This is by far the most requested device I've ever seen.

Note for ska - NetFront 3.0 v1.1.46 supposedly supports streaming video

-Bosco

... DROOL...

I love this device ! I'm going to wait out front of Best Buy until i get one. ... ok well maybe not. But i do love the new sony, its almost perfect ! i only wish instead of 802.11b it also accomadated g. & it had a second port [MS or CF][just a second something!] Blue backlighting instead of orange, blue backlights look so much cooler ! [hopefully on the US version right? ;-)] & i would love it would come w/ the originally graffiti ! [GF2 sucks ! (IMHO)] & if the camera had flash, i'd be set ! [... it'd be the swiss army knife of the new workforce ! now i they only had it in anodized red w/ a white or natural magnesium cross in the center ! ]

the only thing holding me back [aside from sony releasing an even better version just after i buy this (note i recently aquired a T|T) is the Tapwave... i think they may really have the implenation down... & depending on the price.. I could be a very happy Tapwave owner [BTW, i keep wanting to write tupperware instead of Tapwave, anyone else w/ that problem? ;-) ][no offense to the guys @ tapwave, keep it up i'm eageryly awaiting the Helix]

-painted dog

Yup, I'd buy this... Can't really think of much wrong with it. Higher-res camera would have been nice. Remote control for the MP3 player.

I'd like to see how well they've got PalmOS to work with the 480x320 display. I guess at first everything will have to run in 320x320 windows on it, until Sony release the API and programmers release new versions of their software. I doubt that the existing API will allow the new modes. Anyone know anything about that?

-James.

I've got three words for you abosco:

"Buy a laptop"

Will I buy this? Yes. Why? Because it's the best PDA for me at this time. It's not for everyone, but I think it addresses some needs in Sony's Clie line.

I currently own an NX70V. Before that I had a NV70, and before that it was the N760C. Sony just keeps putting out something better, and I keep buying in.

I love my NX, but it's missing vital options. 1) Bluetooth: I have a Bluetooth phone and Bluetooth for my PC, why not utilize the large screen on my Clie for email/web browsing/AIM? 2) Keyboard usability: Don't get me wrong, the NX keyboard was a great touch for a PDA, but it's really hard to use even with my small fingers. The UX50 keyboard reminds me more of the Danger Hiptop keyboard, which I like. 3) Landscape Mode: Great idea by Sony, something we should've seen a while ago. I do hope for a portrait mode as well though, I'd like the option. Maybe it's just because we're all so used to portrait mode that we're not happy about abandoning it completely for landscape. 4) Size and Weight: My NX is a bit bulky, but I deal with it because of the large screen and the camera/CF slot. The UX50 is smaller, lighter, and has Bluetooth/Wireless built in.

I wish the CF slot stayed, but I understand that there isn't much room for it with all the other stuff packed in. At least we won't need to worry about swapping out a CF wireless card or a Bluetooth Memory Stick anymore.

So now I await the US arrival so that I can once again sell my current Clie for the bigger, better model. Luckily this time, it'll be the smaller, better model.

-----------
splat
splat@altavista.net

Have to admit it's sexy, but just wouldn't work for me. Too big, too heavy. A PDA doesn't have value for me if I can't count on having it on my body 100% of the time I'm awake, and this thing would tempt me to put it down rather than stuff it back into my shirt pocket.

When are we going to see an upgraded T form factor Clie? OS5, faster CPU, BlueTooth, thin, light?

See pictures of the thing in this link. Really good pictures they compare it with NX series the size nice, but I still will not buy it

http://www.clieclub.jp/review/rev_ux50/index.html

IT IS OFFICIAL, BYE BYE PALM FOR ME, HELLOOOOO SONY!!!!

This is PERFECT. I nearly bought a laptop that had built in Wi-Fi last week, and it looks like my decision to not get it was a good one :) I love the design, it's small, it's geek and it'll make one of my co-workers jealous LOL....

It's got all that I wanted, the large screen (I believe that someone, if not sony will make the unit have the ability to go portrait mode). 32 MB of RAM (yes only 16 is available, but that's better than my Tungsten). It's got Wi-Fi AND Bluetooth (woo hoo, don't have to get rid of my BT gear :) Built-in Keyboard that is backlit....

My only complaint is that the Graffitti shows up on the right hand side of the screen...

------
BLUE PUNCH BUGGY!!!!!

abosco fizzed:

"Put in 64 MB, a normal freakin' 400 MHz X-Scale, make the body look good,..."

The 22MB for multimedia files is pretty neat.

The Handheld Engine seems to be better at using juice than a "normal freakin' 400 MHz X-Scale."

I like the design.

Cane babbled:

"The 22MB for multimedia files is pretty neat"

So is a large Memory Stick, or better yet, DUAL SLOTS!

You're actually considering buying this? Did you like HPC's too? I mean, the idea sounds cool, but it's too expensive and has too many drawbacks.

Jeez, I thought spending $600 for something with 200 MHz and 16 MB was stupid. You're considering it for $700. Yeesh...

Snap out of it! Don't you hate the chicken neck flip and rotate of the NX series? How is this different? So many contradictions, so little time...

-Bosco

Maybe I've been away too long...

... but doesn't this also use MStick Pro? And doesn't MSP have a speedier xfer rate? So why the crabbing about MStick then?

absoco: I can't tell what I'll do until I see it and lick with my own tongue and sniff it with my own nose. I ignored the NXes 73 & 80 ... until I saw that Batman Black 73. The pain...

some more pictures with actual specs and dimentions. Some people will change their minds, I still won't buy, its hidious

http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID=1492&showComments=true

Palm should be renamed to OCAT, Our Customers Are Trolls.

Funny, the last Palm hardware I bought was a PPPersonal. If you're going to stoop to ad hominem attacks, you could at least spend the five seconds looking at user profiles to make them accurate.

Why such hatred to what Sony does?

It's (By-and-large) poorly-designed, incompatible, gadget-filled propriatary garbage that reads like it was spec'd by a FHM focus group?

Oh, no, wait... It's because we're Out To Get You And Badmouth Poor Little SONY.

I only remember hearing problems with the twist on the old NR model.

Notice I didn't claim that there were actual problems - I just claimed that it looked fragile, and therefore would not buy it - That's MY reason.

And MSPro has speeds as fast as CF.

I haven't had an opportunity to benchmark 'MS Pro', and googling 'VFSMark "MemoryStick/Pro" in various permutations isn't turning up anything of value. Comparing the theoretical numbers without comparing actual implementations is pointless.

I'm sure a USB modem can be made for this model.

Sony's habit of bitch-slapping their customers with eternally changing connectors is ANOTHER reason I'll never buy something from them, but hey - If you like it, more power to you.

You can find a T68i with AT&T service FREE with activation, which is as little as $20/mo.

...For a one year minimum contract? - $240(But probably longer) What's so 'free' about that? I use a modem MAYBE six times a year. $240 seems kind of steep - Not to mention that celphone reception in motel rooms and buildings can be iffy (Who wants to go stand out in the rain to check their email?)

This also has Wifi. It sure beats the hell out of a landline modem.

...Anywhere there's a WiFi point, which in case you live someplace other than California or New York means you can use it at home, and maybe three other places in a 20mi radius - As opposed to a POTS modem, which you can use with an $8/mo account over 95% of the country.

Or are you seriously suggesting I pack along a dial-up capable WAP?

- No modem, no reasonable option to attach one. Do I *have* to buy a $x00 bluetooth enabled celphone or WAP to get some form of away-from-home connectivity

You can get BT modems that plug into regular phone lines. They are a lot more convenient than those wired CF dongle type thingies that people plug into PDAs.

Of course, why you would want to mess with a modem if you can get cheap anywhere connectivity with a BT cellphone is hard to understand. But to each their own.

Hasn't SONY already said that the UX models will not support the higher theoretical speeds promised for MS PRO? I think users say the MS PROs (on new Clies) are somewhat faster than the old Memory Sticks but nowhere near the promised speeds. Anyway, don't get me started again on SONY's misprepresentations regarding the original Memory Stick.

Thanks, robrecht

Of course, why you would want to mess with a modem if you can get cheap anywhere connectivity with a BT cellphone is hard to understand. But to each their own.

Your definition of 'cheap' and mine must be different, then - Dial-up comes in at ($8/12,000min(200hrs/month))=$.000666_/min) and Celphone time is ($30/200min/month)=$.04/min) - Or almost 60 times more expensive. That's assuming you get the celphone for free AND all your minutes can be used for data, AND you aren't actually calling anybody on the thing AND none of your data calls are out-of-network. - All (to varying degrees) assumptions in your favor.

Celphones are convenient, yeah, but cheap? Hardly.

You are bang on about this idea. If sony doesn't do this - somebody really should. The 1st wave of MS based tablet PCs show that Windows is just too much to build a reasonable tablet on (too much hardware requirement mean too high a price and way too large/heavy of a device). Palm OS would give such a device a huge leap over MS. Why the hell isnt this being done? Think about it - if the device was as large as you are suggesting - a paperback sized device with 600x800 - it could be as thin as a Palm Vx and still have plenty of room for everything. Its a killer market opportunity waiting to happen. Such a devie - along with ones like this new sony - would actually be a turning of the table for Palm - a counter attack on MS's own turf! It would make for exciting PDA news reading in any event....

They also may have rated the battery life with the screen off, in addition to BT and wi-fi turned off as well. It would be interesting to see how it does with the backlight on a normal setting with a wi-fi ping test. Wonder if the it comes out of the box with the BT radio turned on with all options like the T|T. Guess that makes it easier for newbies, but a lot of them don't use the radio and it sits there sucking battery even while the Palm is turned off. The BT radio stays on 24x7 listening for signals if the "allow wakeup" option remains checked as it comes from the factory.

Battery life ratings:
14days normal use

WiFi use:
2.5 hours continuously with BackLight at Max
4.5 hours continuously with BackLight at Min

Music playing:
16 hours
35 hours with external batteries attachment

obviously they got some problem with the translation here, the original press release is saying:

104Mb of RAM, in which 16Mb is user-accessible, and another 22Mb which can be used as multimedia storage

Alan
----
Read your manuals before you ask!!

May I ask what is the ****ING point of backing up one RAM to another RAM? So you can lost more copies of data?

someone impolitely asked about the:
> point of backing up one RAM to another RAM?

Storage memory is in DRAM, which sucks power even when the unit seems to be off (for refresh) and loses data when the battery voltage drops sufficiently. The backup memory is in flash RAM, which requires no battery power and thus retains data for years even if the battery goes dead.

16 MB of storage memory should be plenty for non-obsolete applications, since you can use multiple 128 MB memory sticks for more storage, and memory cards don't eat into your battery life.

Another,
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2003/0717/sony2.htm

See pics here:

http://palmoslove.com/work/feature/news20030717.html

-- the Z is clearly larger than this CLUX. The CLUX is tiny!

I like the Zaurus design, keyboard, larger and higher-res screen better. I wish Sony had gone this route instead of getting funky with the design. Im not really complaining too much - but the Sony looks bulky and akward. They should at least take out that camera and trim the thing down a bit width-wise.

That´s true. An updated Tungsten C with bluetooth and VG!

By the way the screen of the new sony physically looks rather small. Has someone the specs to compare it to other devices?

Is this using wireless LAN or bluetooth? I'm guessing it's LAN.

Seems kind of short in any case.

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

> 103(W) x86.5(H) x17.9(D) mm

This is smaller than a Palm III in terms of volume (cubic inches/cc). The only spec where the Palm III was better is battery life (in the neighborhood of 18 hours versus 7 hours), and price $369 vs maybe $599 to $699 ?

That's actually a really nice feature- I've often wondered why more PDA manuf's don't put some sort of lanyard attachment on their units.

$700

Thanks, robrecht

Here is the price from the japanes website, I listed it in Yen and US Dollar:

69,800 Japanese Yen = 591.025 US Dollar

I guess they always cost more in US, so $700?

=999 CAD. OUCH.

Would take a rather large hand to operate one handed.

http://www.brighthand.com/images/sony_peg_ux50.jpg

Notice that the width of the unit is actally far more than the width of the screen part - the hinges and other stuff stick out. I'd say it is about 20% wider than a Tungsten.

http://www.brighthand.com/images/Sony_UX50_3.gif

It is also quite fat (definitely fatter than the already fat Zire71), so add the two together, and I'd say you can't use it with one hand ;-)

As it turns out, I was right about the price too (as was most everyone else) ;-)

Atul Chitnis
http://atulchitnis.net

EAT CROW MIKE CANE (in your own words...)

;)

-Steve

I think Mike is quite glad about being wrong.

Oh, the poor chilllldren.

They can bleat but they cannot read! Too early for your dose of Ritalin?!

Go read:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=5639

or, being the hyperactive wienies you are, when you get to that page, SEARCH for CROW. If postings had timestamps, you'd see I was here at 8AM EDST eating my crow.

Now go away and leave the adults alone.

Speaking of "childish" behavior, if I'm not mistaken you were calling everyone that believed the display to be landspace...MORONS...idiots...or some other such nonsense.

-------------------------------
My blog: www.pocketfactory.com

What backpedaling? I never predicted this to be a square screen.

-------------------------------
My blog: www.pocketfactory.com

We were joking! (at least I was)

>>>I won't hold my breath

Go ahead and disappoint me like that.

Any of you can set up an apppointment to see me in person any time. Just make sure you *want* to do that.

I detest Chicago. Been there three times. Each time I wished for Mrs. O'Leary's cow.

When you're in NYC, let's, uh, chat.

Look, I hate Chicago and that's all there is to it.

First, I don't think they aimed this one toward game players.

Second, Some smart young programmer will figure out a way to remap the keyboard buttons to do your gaming controls just like on your keyboard at home.

I would have liked to have seen a D-pad where the camera is and either another d-pad on the right, or a pair of fire buttons. That way you could keep a grip on it, and still game.

You lose the camera, but I don't really care about the camera.

And, if it still uses Sony's sound APIs, games are fubared anyway.

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

>>>curious how much text can be displayed with grafitti on though

It'll be 320 across. So what you see now on a 320x320 screen is what you'll get on this. Until programs are updated for landscape (don't hold your breath).

The keyboard has 4 cursor keys.

Yes, Sony's new "Handheld" CPU can do 3D graphics, and supports OpenGL. A lot of the interface such as the laucher and mail box will will be in 3D.

As far as the Sony "Handheld" CPU goes it is a 0.18μm 128-bit ARM-based CPU with 8MB of cache. The cache size is interesting because most desktop CPUs don't have that much cache, I don't see why a PDA will need that much cache memory (it has a 7.86GB/s bus). The clockspeed will fluctuate between 8-123Mhz depending on how much processor speed is required, this will allow the machine to conserve energy though efficeny. Also worth noting is that the the machine will have a DSP and a "2D graphics engine" built in.

Also worth noting is

It's also noting that

Ahhh - the future versions of PalmOS will include a 3D engine/API based on open GL. The latest edition of PalmSource Developer News includes a PalmSuurce job opening/listing for the job of 'Graphics Engineer' and mentions all about 3D openGL framwork. Check out this web version of the newsletter and scroll down to the job section:

http://www.palmsource.com/developers/newsletter/20030715.html#jobs

Sounds like cool things are in the works. I submitted this to PalmInfoCenter as a story lastnight but they haven't posted anything - yet.

http://pcweb.mycom.co.jp/news/2003/07/17/13v1.wmv

You can see the Handheld Engine's 3d performance.

That doesn't address my needs at all, as I stated in my original post. I need more main memory due to programs with large databases that do not run from expansion memory. An expensive 16MB PDA is useless to me.

So yes, it is that bad after all.

"it's another richboy gadget, meaning it won't be cheap and doesn't appeal to everyone."

Actually, doesn't that describe nearly all PDAs in general? ;-)

Selbstlade

Palm Professional, Palm IIIx, Cassiopeia E-105 (everyone's got that "experimentation phase" right?), Sony Clie SJ-10, Palm Zire 71.

Wouldn't switching from landscape to portrait break all of the sub-pixel font smoothing apps? e.g. deepreader, WordSmith, etc?

Maybe they want to maintain compatibility with all of them....

-alan

There is NO portrait mode!

Via babelfish:

"The PEG-UX50 note PC like it has the hardware keyboard became design. Folding display on the keyboard, the gimmick which it makes pen operation form is succeeded until recently from the NX series of the machine. Display folding, the picture does the 480×320 dot and with while it is wide, while also pen operation is wide. Like the Zaurus SL-C7XX series of sharp there is no mechanism which turns to the depth picture."

-- in other words, it should read, that last sentence: "Unlike the Zaurus SL-C7XX from Sharp, there is no provision to rotate the screen into portrait mode."

And I agree with the above poster: That white arrow is for Soft Graffiti/Decuma. That area will show the input area when a 320x320 program is running on the left hand side of the wide screen. Yeesh!

You know, HandEra took a real pounding for allowing 160x160 programs to run on their 240x320 display. They looked awkward. Yet Sony is doing something along the same lines...

I wish you had been right! Maybe the US version *will* have it...

You know, HandEra took a real pounding...

Yeah - In case you haven't noticed, the folks around here have diffrent standards for diffrent companies.

Congratulations to Palm SG for putting BOTH landscape AND portrait in the leaked Tungsten T3!

Look at the top. There is a slider that allows you to specify how much to strech the items. It also lets you zoom.

IMHO, the built-in wifi and thumbboard put this device in a whole different category than the Tapwave Helix. I'd compare it more directly to the Tungsten|C, with the exception of the processor.

Tapwave Helix will probably be targeted to gamers who are also potential first-time Palm users. That sort of audience demands a low price point, meaning a low-range product. If it's any higher than say $200-$250, that will price it out of its target market. It won't be sporting a magnesium-alloy shell, thats for sure!

Selbstlade

Palm Professional, Palm IIIx, Cassiopeia E-105 (everyone's got that "experimentation phase" right?), Sony Clie SJ-10, Palm Zire 71.

If it's any higher than say $200-$250, that will price it out of its target market. It won't be sporting a magnesium-alloy shell, thats for sure!

I believe someone in this discussion said $200 and $300(WHAT?) for the camera version.

Plus, it will probably have more than 16 MB (normal) Ram...

Wasn't this spec given in the Tapwave article?

>if it is perceived as a gaming device, $200 will be way too much

I suppose for kids, but Tapwave isn't targeted at kids but at young adults who would appreciate the PIM features of the Palm OS.

I'll tell you right now that even though I have brand new Zire 71 if the Tapwave device is less than $300 I'm buying the first day (assuming the screen is okay, etc...). I am SOO excited about the Tapwave device.

This is probably the best Clie in a while but why oh why can't Sony make a device with decent buttons (or button arrangement) and a stylus?

Jeff Hawkins and the original Palm team got it. Wish Sony did too.

-Kevin Crossman

“I think it all depends on how well Tapwave cultivates software titles (other than games).”

It also depends on the look of the device. First impressions on Brighthand and elsewhere seemed kind of rectangular and professional, but the Tapwave website is now hinting at a curvey form factor, which looks more like a gamer’s toy.

“Will the Helix do landscape *and* portrait?”

Yes

“IMHO, the built-in wifi and thumbboard put this device in a whole different category”

As others have pointed out, dual expansion should allow for wifi. The possibility of using an XT full-size keyboard in landscape mode instead of a thumboard is one of the things that most attracts me to the Tapwave.

Pricing is supposed to be $200 and $300 with a camera. The low price is what concerns me most about the Tapwave, leading me to believe it will only be for gamers. We’ve known all along that it was primarily intended for gamers, but the specs are tempting nonetheless.

Thanks, robrecht

>>>Huh? Whats wrong with the stylus? I saw a pic of it on a link posted somwhere on this page, and it telescopes to what apears to be double size.

Well, that double-size is actually the same size as the "standard" stylus they are using. Too thin, too short. Too bad!

Check out the pics of the T3 over at Brighthand.

Thanks, robrecht

The omap cant run between 8 and 123mhz depending on what an app needs right? :)

oh.Cool. I did'nt know that :)

I don't mind that this is "OT". I was actually curious about this tapwave thing, but what a god-awful website. What's with all the flash animation? I'm even on a cable connection and it's slow.

Blessed are they who don't,
For they shall not,
Nor will they.

I logged in ten minutes ago to the site ... and the globe is *still* spinning and the page is *still* blank. What a way to display your (in)competency...

I get, as Col. Klink would say, "Nothing!"

Damn Flash. Any way to post any stills somewhere? (Is there a Tapwave/Tupperware Forum here yet?)

Klink, Schultz. Whatever. At least I didn't cite Gilligan.

Of course, there's always what Bob did before Gilligan -- the show Dobie Gillis. "WORK?!!?"

P.S. I should note that I was referring to the "Zire" product line, and not the "Tungsten" line, which is definitely not targeted at avg consumers. Also, when I say "everyone" I rather mean "the majority of the PDA-owning and potential PDA-owning consumer market".

P.P.S. Is there any way to edit your comments after posting on PIC?

Selb

Palm Professional, Palm IIIx, Cassiopeia E-105, Sony Clie SJ-10, Palm Zire 71.

Good catch, AlexM.

Thanks, robrecht

Well, foo won't be getting one, willya foo? It's more than your -- hah! -- $300 (or was that $400?) price limit.

$699 for WiFi + BT?

Let's see... hp 2215 with BT built-in is $400, add $100 for WiFi CF, $100 for hp folding keyboard ... still $100 less. Ouch.

Oh, wait! It has "Sony" stamped on it. Riiight.

"Memory
"Total 104 MB (16 MB available for storage of files and programs. Additional 16 MB available for system back up. Additional 29 MB available for media storage)"

-- where do they get that 104MB from?!